Let me correct a coach's quote
 

"It's too bad that every time he drives, he lowers his shoulder and initiates contact. Many times he throws himself into a defender with legal guarding position and it looks ugly, but the officials correctly make no call since there is no advantage gained. Matter of fact, if he hadn't been properly called for two player control fouls, he would've played more of the third and early fourth quarter and we might have won the game."

Now I feel better. Seriously, the kid has some talent, but his first move is to lower the shoulder. He could've picked up a third PC foul, but the defender turned to the side and the contact simply didn't cause either an advantage -- had the defender held his ground, I would've called a third one.

I hate it when the coach wants us to bail the shooter out when he jumps into a defender.
On the flip side, had a coach this year yell at his guys, "They're not going to bail you out so you're going to have to make your layups. Don't try to draw a foul."

Last night - 7 PC's between the two of us. There were some major pops. I know that one player had 4 of them. He fouled out. Might have even had all 5 as PC. Oh - he didn't know what defense was. Perfect candidate for the NBE!

Would love to hear your reasoning behind this.

The defender gave up LGP. He pretty much moved out of the way and the driver's shoulder barely brushed the defender, off to the side. It really was a PC foul waiting to happen, but the defender chose to give up his good position, for some reason.

Rather than "held his ground" I should've said maintained LGP -- that's what I meant.

Earlier in the game, the home coach wanted a foul and asked how there could be no call with "so much contact"? My response was the the defender had "his arms straight up and had legal guarding position all the way." The coach said, "but he was MOVING." That was my cue to get outta there.

Absolutely
 

I see this a lot too.

A1 doesn't concentrate on making the layup and is overly concerned about contact from B1. A1 alters his shot, misses badly, looks for the call when there was little to know contact, and we're going the other way.....Meanwhile, we see a very disheartened A1 jogging slowly up the court and a coach yelling, "They're not going to bail you out so you're going to have to make your layups. Don't try to draw a foul."

And that coach just may be me....... (B15U). ARGH!

I've taken these kinds of cues from coaches several times this year. I once had a coach tell me that a player needed to have possession of the ball to be fouled.

Wow, I'm not sure I could have kept my mouth shut on that one. Like when the coach asked me, "So he can shoot from the floor?"

Gotta love it when shooters become contortionists and disadvantage themselves far worse that any defender could...

Right On!

Me neither. Took all I had when a coach asked me during a middle school game "Why was that a foul? He didn't knock him down!"

What exactly was he asking? The question is so weird I'm not even certain what he doesn't know!

The context was a foul my partner had just called during which a shooter was fouled on the arm. He was bent over after having picked up a loose ball and was bringing the ball up to shoot. The contact was probably within about 18 inches of the floor. He was asking why it wasn't "on the floor" and after my partner went opposite (IAABO mechanic), I was T at the bench.

Those are fightin words....
 

Hey Rick - don't you talk about my son like that! ;)

Won't do it, never will bail him out, never, never.

Agreed. Had one the other night...guard decides to drive the lane and tries to split two defenders standing a foot or so apart with their arms straight up. Lots of minor contact, all caused by the offensive player. He misses wildly, defense gets the rebound and we head the other way. As I passed the bench the coach yells "How is that not a foul?" - with a completely straight face I told him "because the defenders had LGP and your guard didn't displace either of them".

I was sort of speechless. I just turned and walked away

My dad would've said "you can't squeeze 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag." Of course, he wasn't a referee.

The time I most often see something like this is when the defender legally seals off the sideline and the guard tries to go around the defender and ends up going *** over teakettle on the sideline cause he can't dribble and do cartwheels at the same time. Usually the call is simply out of bounds as the contact is really incidental to the whole thing and I've seen both coaches want fouls in that situation (of course they want different fouls).

LOL! Your dad sounds a lot like mine was!

Ha, had the same 'with how is that not a foul?' Me, 'I didn't want to give your guy this 4th'. Now, this was said in kids game, I don't get smartazz for Varsity.

Might have to someday

During a JV girl's game, I had a coach ask me about a possible PC foul against his player that I passed on that I probably should have called. His player lowered her shoulder, drove the basket and ran into a stationary defender that had already established LGP. She slightly displaced the defender and ended up losing the ball.

The coach asked why that wasn't a foul and I told him "If anything coach, it would've been a charge against your player as the defender had established LGP." The coach gave me a look like I was clinically insane and then went on to try and rant about another perceived missed call.

From this description, it sounds like a good pass. "Slight" displacement followed by the offense losing the ball.... I like a no-call there.

This was JV boys......coach's rules knowledge was clearly somewhat lacking from some of his comments.

I have heard it a few times from varsity coaches...my response is simply "defender had LGP, your player initiated the contact".

I don't think this coach understands the concept of "moving on".

Well maybe I'll quit second guessing myself on that one then. :D

Hey, second guess yourself all you want. Don't let me stop you. I wasn't there. :D

You can level with me...I blew the call didn't I? Would a still photo help? :o

I had more to say about your mechanics, frankly. :eek:

I get it. He thought "the act of shooting" required the player to have physically left the floor and that as long as his feet remained on the floor he obviously wasn't in the act of shooting the ball.

From time to time I will work a scrimmage with a volunteer ref and based on some of the calls I see I would say this is not entirely uncommon as misconceptions go.

I'm not sure whether he actually thought that, but it was the logical result of the reasoning he was trying to give.