"C" Calls 10 Second Violation
 

BV game. A1 is bringing ball up in backcourt. Trail has visible count. Right before A1 crosses mid-court, “C” comes in with a 10 second violation. He stated that the shot clock was down to 24 (35 second shot clock) and called the violation. Any thoughts?

I would kill the center official! That is the trails call...if the shot clock is at 22than come in and give the trail information...crossing half court with 24...not obvious.

This drives me nuts!!!!
 

The shot clock is not a true representation of the 10 second violation. It is possible the clock could start legally and not start the 10 second count. I cannot stand that people use this as a way to call this violation. :mad:

Peace

Never have been in an area that uses it. Is the reset to 35 when the ball is at the disposal of the offensive team after a made basket? Is it supposed to start once the inbounding team has completed a legal throw-in? I have caught myself counting a couple times as C, after having done 2 man games, but I have never come close to 10.;)

Wait, I've worked with this guy!

:D

To be fair, this is how 8 second violations are called in the NBA so they may try to apply that usage in high school. Not correct for the reasons you stated.

To be fair, it is a true representation most of the time. If the ball was caught immediately on the throwin, the clock would be an accurate measure.

Yes.
 

I have thoughts.;)

Then the clock should be used, not the official swinging his arm.

As a coach, I'm counting the arm swings. I would be very hot if a C came in and told me we used 10 seconds when the T had only swung his arm 8 times. I might have called a timeout or something. I would likely earn a technical in the process, too.

And as the T, I would probably.....oh, wait, I know how this story plays out, don't I?

Would you "punch (the official) in the face" first?

Ha, you beat me to it. How about these two as partners?

Clock not started properly?
 

I had one that was weird last week, BV, I'm T bringing ball up with heavy pressure, I get to 10 seconds and blow my whistle, indicate and yell 10 seconds. V coach yells out, but 10 seconds hasn't ticked off the clock, I yelled back, then they didn't start the clock properly. Looked at partners and they didn't have any information, kind of gave the beats me look. (I usually look up at the clock as soon as the throwin is complete to make sure its been started, but in this case I had too much action to watch) I count every morning as my instant coffee is heating in the microwave, but during a game I wouldn't be surprised that I speed up. Any suggestions on how to get this right? I don't want to be slow with my count and not reward the defense, and of course I don't want to be fast and penalize the offense. This is the first time this has happened. Later review of game showed the clock ticked off 9 seconds when I called 10, so I was wrong. The clock was started properly.

The problem with using the clock, and the reason we don't do it, is that you often can't watch the play and the clock at the same time.

I understand that the officials count (arm swing) is offiical, but anyone that argues for/against a call/non-call when a properly started clock indicates otherwise has a valid point. I constantly check my count against the clock...if for no other reason than to verify its pace.

I've observed that a distinct majority of officials count way too slow. The clock will consistently indicate that 10 has expired before, sometimes way before, the official gets to 10.

And I'm NOT suggesting that the C should jump in and call it unless the FED issues a ruling that says the clock is official....then anyone that sees the clock can call it.

NCAA Rule 5 Sec 9 Art 4

When play is resumed by a throw-in, the game clock and shot clock
shall be started when the ball is legally touched by or touches a player on
the playing court.

Rule 9 Sec 10

An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds.

So in essence, a defensive player can tip a throw-in pass and start the game/shot clock. The ball can be batted around by both teams for 5 seconds and only when the offensive team gains control of the ball, the 10-second count shall start; the shot clock would be at 30 seconds at this point and there would NOT be a 10 second violation when the shot clock shows 25.

I check my count against the clock throughout the game. Ball inbounded in backcourt, check to see that the clock starts. Check again when I get to five and make sure I'm on track. If there is pressure, check again around eight if I can.

Checking throughout the game makes sure I don't get gradually hurried up by the pace of the game.

On inbound
 

We use a 35/30 second shot clock for boys/girls in Washington State. The shot clock is to be reset after the completed throw-in after a made basket. I instruct the table crew to reset after the made basket (to prevent the horn for violation in the case of a shot with less than 5 or so seconds left on the shot clock) and then to reset again at the completion of the throw-in. I had a boys game two weeks ago where they were resetting on the made basket only and so the shot clock showed 24 second and my count was well below 10. We didn't catch it until a coach whined for a 10 second count when I had 6. At the next dead ball I let the coaches now what was happeing and reminded the table crew to do a proper reset. No problems after that.

I don't think anyone disputes that.

In the extreme, you could have a full quarter elapse having never had the ball get out of the backcourt and having no violation.

My point was that in 95% (a number I pulled out of the air, but you get the point) of the throwins, the control and first touch are simultanous and that the clock is a viable measure (even if only for reference) in all of those cases.

If an official regularly has more than 10 seconds elapse off the clock while the ball is still in the backcourt, they count too slow.

When those work in the NBA they can use that standard. We are not talking about the NBA and the rules do not have the same standards. The throw-in ends when it is legally touched. That might not include possession or team control. This is why it should not be used at other levels like the NBA.

Peace

Yes, I do that thanks. Under pressure is where I got into trouble.

I should introduce him to my buddy, Bionicref, who has had a metronome implanted in his upper hip, right next to the socket for the PTS transmitter. He never has this problem!!! When the timer gets to 10, he gets a small shock to prompt him to blow the whistle. Still having a problem synching the hydraulic arm-swing mechanism.

This is very true. Of the 30 or so games I've had the opportunity to see this year the vast majority are way behind the clock. The worst was probably a GJV game where the official got to the 4th arm swing at the division line in a very slow stroll. Another didn't even start a count until the player was confronted in the backcourt about 8' from the division line.