Congrats to Camron Rust

[Rich]

Originally Posted by grunewar

In school, athletics, politics, work, life, etc., etc., etc......

Yup, and it's just the way it is.

One day I would like to ask the following question, though:

Rather than picking the same people for the 6th or more time, wouldn't it be better to identify qualified people who never got to reach out for the brass ring to work?

I mean, this is a very, very subjective business that we're in -- there's no way that someone can be SO good at this that it's a no brainer to take that person 6, 7, 8 or more times and there are people who are well qualified and do a great job on the court that it would hurt the quality of officiating to pick the person that never went.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

take that person 6, 7, 8 or more times

Rich, are you saying that officials are calling State Finals many times in a row or that they are part of the playoff tournament year after year?

I thought most States had rules like Camron describes Oregon's. I believe my state is two State Finals and you are done. You have to go back to the beginning and work 2 years at each level of the tournament before advancing to the next. It would take at least six years to get back to a State Championship game.

[Rich]

Here, state (currently) is the semis and finals (and the quarterfinals in the big school division) played over the course of 3 days at the end of the season (boys play one week and girls another). If chosen, you get assigned to one game there. And that's what I was talking about.

The people that are selected are great officials, but there are other great officials who never get the call. I worked with 2 this year with over 30 years in who have dotted every i, crossed every t, and work a solid 3-person game who probably will never get chosen. And that's too bad.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Here, state (currently) is the semis and finals (and the quarterfinals in the big school division) played over the course of 3 days at the end of the season (boys play one week and girls another). If chosen, you get assigned to one game there. And that's what I was talking about.

The people that are selected are great officials, but there are other great officials who never get the call. I worked with 2 this year with over 30 years in who have dotted every i, crossed every t, and work a solid 3-person game who probably will never get chosen. And that's too bad.

In Oregon, the state begins with the quarterfinals at all 6 classifications. At each classification, both boys/girls are held at the same venue in the same week and includes 11 games each (the 7 towards the championship and 4 on the consolation side of the bracket). 12 officials are selected for each classification. Those 12 officials work all of the games through the finals....including consolation games...either 3 or 4 games each. Those 12 slots are allocated to each association proportional to the number of schools they service in each classification. Ours get 19 officials out of a total of 72.

The state (Oregon) limits officials to no more than any 2 tourneys in a 3 year period. There is no maximum.

Associations can choose to select their allotment of officials any way they wish. Ours has chosen to be more restrictive than the state....no more than 1 tourney every other year. Aside from that, we have a requirement that effectively says that of our allotment of 19 officials, 6 can not have been in the last 2 years. The first 13 are chosen by vote. The other 6 are independantly selected by the commissioner regardless of their vote position....as long as they meet the other state requirements (90% on the test and have taken the state training class). Our commissioner often uses some of those 6 picks to select people like what Rich described....great officials that have just not made it through the vote after many years...but also up-an-coming officials that just haven't gotten the recognition yet.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Yup, and it's just the way it is.

One day I would like to ask the following question, though:

Rather than picking the same people for the 6th or more time, wouldn't it be better to identify qualified people who never got to reach out for the brass ring to work?

I mean, this is a very, very subjective business that we're in -- there's no way that someone can be SO good at this that it's a no brainer to take that person 6, 7, 8 or more times and there are people who are well qualified and do a great job on the court that it would hurt the quality of officiating to pick the person that never went.

I guess I sit on the other side of this argument. I hear this quite often in my area and generally from officials who want a chance to work at a level that, IMO, they are not read to work. I have no problem with identifying officials who have never had the chance, are qualified and talented enough to be there and giving them a chance (that's how I broke in), but I think there is a misperception that a group of "qualified officials" exists that is being systematically denied opportunities. I don't believe that happens in my neck of the woods.

I have been fortunate to work at the state tournament several times and have worked several times to the Semifinals and beyond. Last season, due to several circumstances, I worked the 5A (largest classification here) boys semis with two guys who had never worked that far into the tournament before. Our pregame was interesting because one of the guys was so nervous that he could barely get dressed and the other guy was faking indifference to being in the game. Trying to deal with both of them and to get their respective heads into the game (as the R) was a challenge. One was hard enough but two took effort. They are both good guys and good refs, but neither was ready (IMO) to be there. They got a real opportunity to show what they could do on a big stage. Things turned out ok, but both coaches said something to me about who my partners were before the game started. Apparently, they like seeing the same guys when it really counts.

BTW, congrats Camron!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by stripes

Apparently, they like seeing the same guys when it really counts.

It's great if you're one of "the same guys," I guess.

[Zoochy]

Congrats to all working post season.
I was assigned 2 post season games. Both are in the Districts assignments. These are the beginning of post season. Here is a response to me from someone when I informed him of my assignment.
"No disrespect intended to anyone that gets district assignments but it is clearly one of the worst processes that there is. Because you get district assignments clearly does not mean that you are a quality official. I have seen them pick dead people, I have seen them pick people that haven't lived in Missouri for at least 5 years etc. It is a flawed process."

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Congrats to all working post season.
I was assigned 2 post season games. Both are in the Districts assignments. These are the beginning of post season. Here is a response to me from someone when I informed him of my assignment.
"No disrespect intended to anyone that gets district assignments but it is clearly one of the worst processes that there is. Because you get district assignments clearly does not mean that you are a quality official. I have seen them pick dead people, I have seen them pick people that haven't lived in Missouri for at least 5 years etc. It is a flawed process."

I cut my teeth in Missouri and the bold is true. AD's and coaches choose their district officials.

Congrats Cameron and Tjones...

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I cut my teeth in Missouri and the bold is true. AD's and coaches choose their district officials.

Congrats Cameron and Tjones...

Now I know ya'll are pullin' our collective leg. What self-respecting coach is going to vote for a dead guy to work their games? Seriously? How are you supposed to work a dead guy? At least he won't give you that pesky stop sign.

[Back In The Saddle]

Congrats, Cameron!