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-   -   Inadvertant Horn - Bus Tossing Rant (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56896-inadvertant-horn-bus-tossing-rant.html)

CDurham Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:40pm
Quote:
Last night - GJV ball. Partner under basket with team A throw-in. I'm T. Inbound pass is thrown and A2 completely misses her attempt to catch. Ball bounces and is rising towards A3 making an attempt to retrieve it. As she is doing this the horn sounds from table. A3 hesitates and looks at table. Ball passes her and goes OOB near division line. No one touched ball. I whistled and sent ball back to endline to partner for throw-in Team B.

Coach team A furious - wants ball back to A at POI. Then, as soon as he finishes yelling this - says B should get ball at division line. Since ball was untouched and horn does not stop play we gave the ball to B at endline for throw-in. At half - varsity officials in stands told us we got it wrong. Ball to team A at POI. Later heard that they were tossing us under the bus for the call to team A fans when 2nd half was beginning.
Had a somewhat similar play the other week. Player A is dribbling up the court, the horn sounds, and he throws the ball in my direction. The defense was still playing defense on the dribbler and on other offensive players. I let the ball go OOB and awarded it to Team B.

Of course the bench and the player was a little upset, but I told him the horn doesnt stop play automatically. If both teams would have stopped playing their positions I would have stopped play with the whistle, but only the dribbler seemed to process the horn and proceeded to throw the ball OOB.

mj Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 658139)
In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.
Agree. That's why I generally don't offer up my opinion on things about the JV game unless specifically asked by the guys doing the game.

rockyroad Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 658139)
In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.
Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.

DLH17 Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 658145)
Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.
NOT a good idea.

Adam Wed Feb 03, 2010 02:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 658146)
NOT a good idea.
Why?

mbyron Wed Feb 03, 2010 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 658145)
Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.
Unfortunately, it probably wasn't apparent that they were pricks until the end of the conversation. But it's a good comeback anyway. :cool:

Jurassic Referee Wed Feb 03, 2010 03:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 658101)
G/JV, girl approached us before the game to see if it was ok to play with a plastic tip on her finger. Both my partner and I told her no and to see if she could <font color = red>tape it up</font>.
Tape it up?

Don't think so. The rules will not allow the girl to play with a plastic tip on her finger, no matter if it's taped, padded or blessed by the Pope. That one is covered definitively under NFHS rule 3-5-2(a) and you don't need anything from your state to rule on that one.

DLH17 Wed Feb 03, 2010 03:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 658152)
Why?
For starters, it's not professional. Secondly, we never know who else is listening - which leads me back to "it's not professional". It only stands to good reason that we, as officials, should ALWAYS strive to maintain the highest level of professionalism especially when it comes to governing what comes out of our mouths.

Finally, I've discovered it is never a good thing to badmouth another official - whether you know him or not.

Indianaref Wed Feb 03, 2010 05:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 658166)
Tape it up?

Don't think so. The rules will not allow the girl to play with a plastic tip on her finger, no matter if it's taped, padded or blessed by the Pope. That one is covered definitively under NFHS rule 3-5-2(a) and you don't need anything from your state to rule on that one.
Tape it up instead of the plastic tip.

mcdanrd Wed Feb 03, 2010 05:36pm
I agree, V officials were way out of line. However, perhaps a little preventative officiating here would have prevented the problem. With a visual check to the table before administering the throw-in you might have noticed the player headed to the table and waited momentarily to wave her in. Of course, you may have done that and she just wasn't headed to the table yet.

Nevadaref Wed Feb 03, 2010 09:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 658062)
Last night - GJV ball. Partner under basket with team A throw-in. I'm T. Inbound pass is thrown and A2 completely misses her attempt to catch. Ball bounces and is rising towards A3 making an attempt to retrieve it. As she is doing this the horn sounds from table. A3 hesitates and looks at table. Ball passes her and goes OOB near division line. No one touched ball. I whistled and sent ball back to endline to partner for throw-in Team B.

Coach team A furious - wants ball back to A at POI. Then, as soon as he finishes yelling this - says B should get ball at division line. Since ball was untouched and horn does not stop play we gave the ball to B at endline for throw-in. At half - varsity officials in stands told us we got it wrong. Ball to team A at POI. Later heard that they were tossing us under the bus for the call to team A fans when 2nd half was beginning.

I just don't understand why so many officials that are so anxious to throw other officials under a bus. What gives? :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 658064)
From your description, you had it right. At your next association meeting or next time you see the V officials, I would respectively talk to them about the play. Have your rules numbers ready.
Nah, just shower, change clothes, and then stick around for the varisty contest. While you are sitting in the stands, make sure that you loudly criticize the calls of these officials so that all the spectators can hear you. :D

KJUmp Wed Feb 03, 2010 09:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 658122)
Varsity guys never said anything to back their perspective. Just said, and I quote: "you guys screwed the pooch on that throw in call. Ball goes to A" Partner: "I don't think we did - what do you mean?" Them: "you just did, ha ha ha" out the door.

They were courtside when our game was over and we just passed them heading to dressing area.

The horn sounded because a substitute had approached the table after partner administered ball for throw-in. When they couldn't get in immediately they returned to bench as horn sounded. The timer was someone I have seen do several games to was not really new to the job. Player was not at table prior to giving ball for throw in. I saw partner look there before giving A1 the ball.

I feel good about the way we handled the situation and can't say I would do anything differently. I don't see this as an inadvertant whistle.
Real class act those two.
Nice job handling the sitch....both on and off the court.

Adam Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdanrd (Post 658224)
I agree, V officials were way out of line. However, perhaps a little preventative officiating here would have prevented the problem. With a visual check to the table before administering the throw-in you might have noticed the player headed to the table and waited momentarily to wave her in. Of course, you may have done that and she just wasn't headed to the table yet.
Read on, he watched his partner look just before he administered. Sometimes, the timer just has a brain fart and hits the horn when he shouldn't.

Juulie Downs Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:30am
No one has yet answered the question: What if you whistle just after the horn sounds before the ball is clearly OOB? I mean, if it's a play where there's no definite thing happening, and the horn sounds, and all the players just quit playing, I will whistle and then give the ball as POI (after reprimanding the table gently). So in the OP, if you see that A3 is very close to the ball, and then stops trying when the horn sounds, why not blow it dead before it gets to the OOB point and just give it back POI? Of course, once you don't whistle, I see that it's a turnover.

representing Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 658064)
From your description, you had it right. At your next association meeting or next time you see the V officials, I would respectively talk to them about the play. Have your rules numbers ready.

Edited to add: If the coach needed to rant at anyone, it should have been the time keeper or the timing mechanism.
Just curious. How is this right? From the description, the ball was in flight during an inbound pass. No team-control at this point. When the horn went off, I was thinking that it should have gone to the arrow since A did not have possession of the ball.

I'd like a rule reference for this please.

EDIT: forget what I said... I just realize the horn doesn't necessarily stop play.


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