Illegal court
 

Had this Friday night. Varsity Boys. I walk into the "gym" only to find out that this school plays their games in the church, where congregation is held! When I first walk in, I am about 15' from the near sideline at the division line. As I look around I notice that the scorers table and clock are up on the stage, where services are preformed. The benches are on the floor, right in front of the stage. The students section is positioned on the stage, behind the home bench. The "stands" consist of 4 rows of folding chairs going right up to the side of the court (3' away) The ceiling has to be the minimum of 25' high, the court is the shortest court I have seen since my days of boys club ball. In the 4 corners, the walls come to within 3 inches of the court. This runs about a foot parallel to to court before it turns away and in now about 3' away from the court. There is NO restraining line. No coaches boxes marked. They have the X marked with tape. We let the coaches use the area in front of their benches as the "box" because I think in varsity, coaches should be allowed to stand. The best part of the entire "gym" was that all the way around the court, except for under the lane extended OOB, there was carpet that came within an inch of the OOB lines.
To top things off, we had the teachers lounge available to change in, and we had to use the public bathroom, which had a shower available if we wanted to use it. We did not.
I know that this court doesn't fit the NFHS standards for a legal court, but what would you do in this situation? Would you say that the game can't be played for safety reasons? This court has been around for a while (partner said he was there 3 years ago) We were the 4th game of the day, so the school could ask, why was it legal for games 1-3, but not game 4? I don't know if the school has some sort of exemption from the state, but I honestly don't see how they can play their games here.
We did play the game, between 2 top 10 teams in their class in the state, and I have never felt more claustrophobic on a basketball court before. I plan on sending an email to our association commissioner asking about the legality of the court, but I am certain he is already aware of it because he has been the commissioner for over 30 years.
Oh yeah, and I am there again tomorrow :eek:

You Can't Make A Silk Purse From A Sow's Ear ...
 

That's what I would do.

Unless there is a safety issue, I wouldn't worry about it.

State associations can provide a waiver to schools who use a court that isn't "legally" covered in the book.

Needless to say, said church/gym will not be hosting any tournaments.

Got a reply from my commissioner; the state granted them a waiver and he wasn't happy to hear that there is no coaching box marked. He said that they will have one marked for tomorrows game.

Still a gym I'm not looking forward to being back in.

I see you're in Portland. What school? There's a Christian school out in Damascus that has carpet all over the floor, but they don't do hs games there, just ms.

Also, I think by rule, they don't have to have a coaching box marked, but then the coach can't stand or pace nervously back and forth. But I haven't done very well on rules this weekend, so I may be wrong about that.

Yeah, I've seen carpeted courts back where I was from, but that was middle school too. I had never seen it come up to the edge like this for a HS game. The game was at Westside Christian.
As for the coaching box, that is optional, and if there isn't one, they can't use what they don't have. We probably should have made them sit by rule, but we didn't. Talked with the commissioner and he said he would call them and make sure they have the box marked tonight. Im at Damascus next week, so hope their V court is better than MS.

Damascus Cnristian isn't the school I'm talking about. I can't remember the name of the place I was at -- a few years ago. I LOVE the Damascus Cnristian gym, expect that there are no dressing rooms for the refs. But those old wooden gyms with the high rafters and the orange glow... Ah, that's atmosphere! Have fun out there!

I worked at Westside Christian when I was in Portland. It's not that bad. You're making much ado about nothing. While it is varsity, it is the equivalent of a mediocre JV game at any public high school. It's a gym. You work the game and you go home. Were you seriously considering not allowing the game to be played? I assume you haven't been to Vernonia yet? :rolleyes:

I can't wait till you're at one of the high schools that doesn't have a shadow line painted through the mascot at midcourt....

No I wasn't considering not playing the game.... I just asked a hypothetical about what you (other refs) would do. I then threw out an example.
AS for making much ado about nothing... I think it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt in one of the corners where they have 3 inches of space OOB.
I only started the thread because in my 10 years officiating I never encountered anything close to this set-up for a HS game. I worked at a school in IL that had fewer than 90 students, but they still had a gym, and bleachers, and a fully legal court.
From the sounds of it, if I had started my officiating career here, I would have seen a setup similar to this and wouldn't be as surprised by it.

It will just give you more incentive to impress Howard (and the new commish) enough for you to get out of the Parochial circuit and work the public schools more. ;)

I don't recall the walls being that close - there are "bleachers" on the side opposite the "table", aren't there? Maybe I'm mixing up 2 different gyms. Anyway, there are more joys that will await you. The Vernonia gym is one of my favorites. I loved going there because it was just a cool little town that hasn't seemed to progress from the 50's. Nothing to do there so everyone watches the games on Friday nights. But the gym is tiny and the endlines give you no room at all.

Side note - my favorite non-basketball moment happened in Vernonia. Lots of schools have a raffle where you win some cash prize or something at halftime for having the winning ticket. Well, one night in Vernonia, the raffle prize was a half a hog. I knew I wasn't in the big city anymore...

Another side note - I believe I worked a game at Westside Christian with our own Camron Rust. It was fairly uneventful, but I do recall not being a big fan of the changing room.

:eek:

Rulz rules, except when they don't.....

I just transfered into the area in October, so I had to spend the first half of the season doing JV ball and getting my evaluations in. This half he's got me between big school girls V and small school boys V. He has been out to see me the second half, so I'm hoping to get the big school boys next year.
The walls are that close in each of the 4 corners, for about a foot-foot and a half. The "bleachers" consist of rows of folding chairs, all on the same level as the playing court. Must be why so many people stood along the back wall, you could get a better view.
I wouldn't mind going to Vernonia, cause I sure could use some free hams......

We've got a local parochial gym that's similar. No room on one sideline due to folding chairs, and an overhang that gets hit every now and then. It's a fun place to ref, though, due to the atmosphere.

I hear ya!
 

Locdog - I was in a similar situation a few weeks back and did have someone become injured, although probably a minor ankle twist.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...gym-story.html

I also asked for opinions on the Forum.

BOTTOM LINE: Gym was there before your game and it will be there when you're gone. Hundreds of officials and players have been there before and will be there again.

Does that make it any better? No.

I reported it to my Association, have a clear conscience, and am done with it. Let the school, administrators, parents, etc. worry about it. If it's safe enough for them every day, who am I to say otherwise?

But, I still don't like it.

GIGDGO and if I never go back there, it'll be fine too.

Off soapbox.

Wow - maybe I'm totally off and not thinking of the same gym you're describing. I apologize if I am confused.

Howard is the most fair man on the planet, in my opinion. Him seeing you is the best thing that can happen. If you are Varsity worthy, he will give you the games. I am anxious to hear from my old buddies there how things change when he retires. It's going to be interesting for sure.

Are you working westside, eastside, or both? You'll only get to Vernonia if you're on the westside. I could have rented an apartment in Gaston I went there so much. Hated Gaston. Anyway, best of luck. I'm sure no one else gives a crap about Portland basketball except the few people on this site who work there. Howard will take care of you - he is the best.

LocDog - check your PM

Yeah, I've got nothing but good things to say about Howard so far. If he gets re-elected (which I see happening in a landslide) he says he will retire after this next term is up. Right now I'm working both sides, but since I live almost in Gresham, I doubt he'll send me to Vernonia. I'll more than likely end up in Corbett.....
NP getting the gyms mixed up, if you ask me what the gym Friday before last was like, I would have no idea. I can't remember gyms at all, but I'm sure this one will stick with me for a while. :)

I just read through your thread, and that sounds like quite the gym too. I did like the piece on the clock.
Reading about the kid that got hurt reminded me of when I was sure a kid was going to get hurt..... He was chasing a guy on a fastbreak, blocked the shot and crashed into what I thought was a padded wall. Turns out the padding was hanging over a doorway too, and he ended up in the doorway behind the padding.

Front or back half?

I can only imagine. I was wondering what one does with a half a hog, but apparently it was a big hit there. I did not buy a raffle ticket as we are told we can't - how great would it be if one of the refs won the raffle and the home team won on a controversial call?

I'd like to meet the ref who has room for half a hog in their gym bag...... er, maybe I wouldn't.

My Uncle lives in Vernonia. stayed with him when I reff the end of trail tournament this summer. Didn't see the inside of the gym but saw the out side. Quiet little town. Had a good time reffing in the Porland area. Hope to do it again.:D

Vernonia is better since the building had to be gutted after the flood - protruding arch on the stage is gone, so now there is at least room on that end - other end is still tight, but workable. I agree, it's a great atmosphere!.

Westside does take a little getting used to. The main thing is be safe and don't hesitate to be proactive. When I've work there, I let the coaches know that if the action gets too close in the corners and looks in any way unsafe, we'll stop play and resume with a POI throw-in.

There's another small private HS gym in Milwaukie that's very tight. One end line is only 18" from the wall, there's virtually no clearance between the table and team benches on one sideline, aluminum bleachers on opposite side line come right up to the line.......only the one end line has at least 3 foot clearance.

I think you're mixing up two gyms. We worked at Horizon Christian a couple years ago.

What you're describing sounds like Horizon Christian. Westside has a "floating floor" that is laid on top of the carpet/concrete or whatever is under it...not a standard floor. The seating opposite the table at Westside is chairs....the area is basically the sanctuary for the church. They either take up the floor or lay something over it for Sunday.

Not any more. Vernonia flooded a couple years ago (maybe it was last year)...3' of mud in the gym, floor looked like a roller coaster when it was cleared. They tore down most of the school and rebuilt it on higher ground after 2nd "100-year" flood in must 10 years. The did keep the gym after replacing the floors. In doing so, they reset the baskets to be further from the ends. You're no longer sitting on the edge of the stage when you're lead or against the wall with your toes inboucds on the other end. The court is just shorter now....not much running no matter the style of play.

Never Heard Of Going Half Hog ???
 

I thought the idiom was, "Go whole hog"?

I work softball in Portland. I got sent to Gaston once two years ago for a doubleheader. It rained and the original home team's field (on the east side) was unplayable, so they wanted to play at Gaston instead. Nice field, good team, but not really a direct way there from anywhere.

As in basketball, we have games in Vernonia. The commissioner tries not to send the same people out there game after game.

Well I got about zero percent of everything right. :o

Oh well, I miss a lot of the quirks of the Portland area towns. I haven't seen any of that around here yet. But the basketball is a whole lot better here, so I'll take that. And 3-man - hallelujah for 3-man.