Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 657087)

How would you have felt if you found out that a partner of yours had told a coach that he had to make a lot of calls because you weren't making them?

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657092)

If that were true and was already obvious to everyone, I have no problem with it.

Originally Posted by richmsn (Post 657093)

the assigner knew what he was doing when he assigned you with those two. I think the best thing in this situation is to say nothing -- let the coach do the talking, empathize without throwing anyone under the bus, and get out of dodge.

I don't think you meant to throw anyone under the bus, but you may have.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

I
Years ago, I was watching a game as a spectator when an intentional foul was called on a made basket. Officials awarded 3 free throws, "one for the foul, two for the intentional." This struck several people in the crowd as wrong. Some of the people asked me.

"Was that right?"

How do you defend this?

"No, they made a mistake." And I quoted the correct ruling.

Some here said that I had stabbed the officials on the court in the back

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288 (Post 657162)

In that particular situation, I think it would have been best to say nothing at all or if you can't get away with saying nothing, play dumb. By telling the fans the officials were wrong and quoting the correct ruling, you basically gave them all the ammo they needed to heckle the officials. Ex: "Joe over here is an official too and says you suck"

While I don't think you meant to throw your partners under the bus, you did. By telling the coach you had to be the man and step up and make calls outside your PCA, you basically told the coach that your partners sucked and you had to do everything for them.

When confronted with a situation like this, as has been said above, it's best to say nothing. Remember, a coach or whomever you are speaking to cannot "misquote" silence.

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 657164)

I'm not going to be lumped in with clowns who don't know the rules in that situation.

As for the situation with the H coach, I would just direct him to the assigner if at all possible.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

I'm a little vague about where the line is drawn on what constitutes "throwing someone under the bus."

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

Years ago, I was watching a game as a spectator when an intentional foul was called on a made basket. Officials awarded 3 free throws, "one for the foul, two for the intentional." This struck several people in the crowd as wrong. Some of the people asked me.

"Was that right?"

How do you defend this?

"No, they made a mistake." And I quoted the correct ruling.

Some here said that I had stabbed the officials on the court in the back. I said I think not, but to each his own.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

In the case at hand, the fact that I did extend my area and made so many calls was obvious and undeniable. We were not totally on the same page.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

Does this reflect negatively on me or them? Like so many things, it depends on who you ask. The crowd was mainly on me. "THAT GUY is killing us." The coach took swipes at both during the game.
I made a call for him. "Can't somebody else call a foul?"
I made a call against him. "That's not your call."

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

If anything I said or did before, during, or after this game can be considered throwing anyone under anything, feel free to throw me with them.

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs (Post 657167)

the line is right where you say or imply or strongly hint that you were trying to "rescue" the game from the partners.

I can see where some might feel this way, but I certainly didn't tell him anything he didn't already know.




Even to try to take the blame is just backhanded slamming.

Disagree

"I'm not sure we saw the whole situation." "Those guys are pretty respected, I expect they know what they're doing" "Howard is our rules guy for all the little details. you'll have to ask him." "Sorry, I was talking on the phone" "Oh, I wasn't watching. Have you seen a red cap laying here somewhere?"

I just see all this as varying degrees of bogus. I did say, we don't know for sure what the call was, but the signal I saw was this, and the appropriate penalty was this. This was no little detail. If you wish to lie to a friend who asks a direct question in the name of preserving the integrity of the profession, that's up to you.


And what did you do in pre-game to get on the same page, and to be on the same page?

Spent a considerable time on positioning, coverage areas, and differences between 2 man and 3 man.

I mean, in that game, knowing this new guy hadn't done 3-whistle before, you might have added a lot to his learning by really bending over backward to see that he DID call a few fouls and that they were good calls.

I'd like to know how you do that.

End of the first quarter, if he's still pretty overwhelmed, you say okay, let's lock down in positions and just focus on the action, or give him carte blanche to call all over the floor. "I don't care where the next foul happens, it's your whistle". This is the kind of stuff I've experienced at 3-whistle camps for beginners and it really helps a lot to get over that first big barrier.

If you say this is a camp teaching tactic, I'll take your word for it. But this was not a camp. What happens when somebody gets flipped on his head before he makes the next call?

The crowd is mainly on you, but that's only because they don't understand, and you can't use it as a gauge. When one of you looks bad, you all look bad.

I'll buy this part.


In order to look better yourself, and to not be in the position of trying to decide what to say to a coach later, you have to be more pro-active during the game to make it better.

I'd need something more specific.

Also, if you really think of it as "one for all and all for one" you are so embarrassed when you see that coach, that you just wave and walk out. Don't even want to explain.

I was definitely not embarassed. Furthermore, I don't believe either of my partners was either. I think we all gave our best effort given the situation.

Nah, you did it to yourself. We don't need to. Just learn your lesson, as we all should do when we err, and don't do it again.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657168)

I will never be afraid to state facts, especially facts that are already known by the person I am speaking to.

Example: I expanded my zone and made a lot of calls.

I will also never be afraid to state facts that are published in black and white.

Example: They were not entitled to 3 free throws in the above situation.

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 657164)

I'm not going to be lumped in with clowns who don't know the rules in that situation.

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 657166)

The problem is this: You're not in an association meeting. You're sitting in the stands with a bunch of ignorant chuckleheads who want someone, anyone to validate their opinion that the officials suck. Even if those guys on the floor are right and you tell them, they then think you AND the officials are morons.

I've been in that position. My response? I'd have my phone in my hands looking like I wasn't even watching, sending an email or something. I do not, will not comment on the officiating with anyone other than another official.

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 657188)

I understand the unwillingness either to endorse (what seems to me) an obviously blown call or to announce in the stands that the officials blew it.

But Rich is right: the people in the stands are partisan, and they are asking only for validation. They're not interested in learning the rules.

Furthermore, in many circumstances there might be things going on that I really didn't see from the stands: they might have gotten it right after all, based on what they saw. So even apart from "not throwing them under the bus," I'm shutting up because I might not have all of the info.

Rich's proposed solution is a great one: "I didn't see it," or maybe, "I'm not sure what the call was," which might be more honest. Of all the things you might say here, this is probably the best. IMHO.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 657159)

I'm a little vague about where the line is drawn on what constitutes "throwing someone under the bus."

Years ago, I was watching a game as a spectator when an intentional foul was called on a made basket. Officials awarded 3 free throws, "one for the foul, two for the intentional." This struck several people in the crowd as wrong. Some of the people asked me.

"Was that right?"