Vote of Confidence?
 

Yesterday, I got a call from my assignor to double check that I had my assignment for tonight. (I didn't) It seems I am to go to the only 4A school that we have. Okay.

"Who's with me, chief?"

"Oh, yeah. Glad you asked. It's (the older guy who has been around for several years but never gets varsity games unless we're REALLY busy) and (the young guy that started officiating last year). You'll be in charge. Handle it now."

I'm not sure if either of these guys has ever done three man.


:cool:

JAR - and as always, we anxiously await your game report! ;)

Well its pretty well spelled out, you are going to be "the man" tonight! Good Luck, don't let your guard down for a second.

Let's just say it was an experience. Girls game was a blowout, very easy. Boys game was hotly contested the whole way, biggest lead was 10. Home trailed the whole game, cut it to 2, but couldn't pull it out. Early in the second half, after a couple of trips which resembled a pinball machine, I realized that I was going to have to expand my coverage area somewhat. After that, we (mostly I) regained what I considered an acceptable level of control. Home coach is, uh, quite excitable even when he's ahead, and tonight he was over the edge a bit. Whacked him late third quarter. Lots of fouls down the stretch. I'm guessing I called roughly 75% of them, one partner 18%, the other guy..............didn't call very many. In retrospect, I feel like I did what I had to do, but one always wonders if it was too much when forced out of the ordinary.

As if all that wasn't enough, we had (you're not gonna believe this) an inexperienced timekeeper tonight, who stopped and started the clock incorrectly several times, further complicated by one time when the clock "stuck" and simply wouldn't work until it was reset.

When we ran off at the end, some of the fans threw money at us. I got all excited and gathered some up, but it turned out to be counterfeit. Thirteen dollar bills with Mark Padgett's picture on them.

Okay, I made that last part up, but the rest is true, to the best of my recollection.

Finally, I talked to another of our association guys on the way home, and it turns out that he and his partner heard the 4th quarter of our game on the radio. Announcers apparently made repeated reference to "one official making all the calls" and at one point said "he called that foul from seventy feet away." But I was pleased to hear that one of these home town guys said that the officiating did not affect the game and that the visitors simply outplayed the home team, executed a better game plan, and seemed to want it more.

THE END

until tomorrow when the home coach calls the assignor and the assignor calls me (maybe)

It sounds like you were "the man" hope you're not feeling bad about calling most of the fouls even though some were out of your area, you had to! Imagine the disaster the game would have been without your expanded coverage. My VB game tonight was a blow out. Felt like you said ping pong I had trouble keeping up with the ball since the other team stole the ball about every other time down the court. HOme coach pulled out his starting 5 in the third quarter and put in his JV's. I happen to be by the Hbench about 2 minutes later and hear coach say to his sitting varsity " they (the JVs) look a lot better than you guys did"

Shocker! :p

How did the young official in your crew do?
Any lessons that may useful to us newbies?

Yeah...and I wasn't there. :)

Primary, primary, primary.

When you are on ball referee your primary hard and call all the obvious fouls and violations.

When you are off-ball, referee your primary hard and get those subtle things that can mess up your game: elbows; displacement in the post (offense & defense); grabbing jerseys; bumping cutters of their course; illegal screens/picks.

If you have to split hairs on a call don't blow your whistle.

Do those things and your more experienced partners will be happy with you.

The young guy was largely invisible. He did make his OOB calls on his lines, quickly and decisively, but he called very little else, especially in the second half.

My advice to him, and you, is to not be intimidated by your surroundings. I had called a two man game with this guy at a smaller school last month and thought he did an excellent job, but I think too much stuff was thrown at him at once, bigger school, bigger crowd, faster pace, three man mechanics. He kind of shrunk from the task.

It is truly a small world. Today I went on a short road trip. On the way home passing through the town of the visitors from last night, I pulled in at Burger King to use the rest room. First thing I see is the bus of the home school from last night. First person I see is the head coach. We exchanged waves. When I came out of the rest room he followed me outside and we talked. He was mainly asking that I plead his case with the assignor against sending two out of three officials with such limited experience to call an important district game at this level. There was very little I could say, since I felt the same way before the game ever started. I didn't want to throw my partners under the bus, but the fact is, they were already under the bus, and we both knew it. I directed his attention toward myself instead.

"I know this was not the prettiest game. I obviously extended my area and made a lot of calls, but I felt like I did what I needed to do. I don't know how you saw the game. You may think I was most of the problem."

He responded at least somewhat in agreement.

"I know you were forced to fix some of their mistakes, and to make some calls when they just would have called nothing. It just looks bad to the fans when one guy has to make all the calls."

No argument there.

[QUOTE=just another ref;657076 I didn't want to throw my partners under the bus, but the fact is, they were already under the bus, and we both knew it. I directed his attention toward myself instead.

"I know this was not the prettiest game. I obviously extended my area and made a lot of calls, but I felt like I did what I needed to do. I don't know how you saw the game. You may think I was most of the problem."

He responded at least somewhat in agreement.

"I know you were forced to fix some of their mistakes, and to make some calls when they just would have called nothing. It just looks bad to the fans when one guy has to make all the calls."

No argument there.[/QUOTE] Ouch. As one who has many times been the "problem" partner, I can honestly say I hope I never have to work with you. I've already got all the tire tracks I need running across my face...:(

You're gonna have to go back and highlight the tire tracks in my post, because I don't follow. What would you have said to the guy?

Did you really need to infer to the coach that your partners were bad and that you had to make a lot of calls to make up for them?

That's exactly what the red-highlighted statement above told the coach.

Imo you threw both of your partners under the bus. Not very professional at all. Your assignor is gonna have a helluva job now trying to get both of your partners accepted at that school in the future, no matter how much they improve.

Nothing.

If he has questions about individual calls that you made, answer them. But never intimate that you were making those calls because your partners won't. Don't discuss your partners in any way with a coach. Save that for your assignor.

How would you have felt if you found out that a partner of yours had told a coach that he had to make a lot of calls because you weren't making them?

Didn't have to infer anything. He saw the game. He isn't blind. I offered myself up to take the blame.

If that were true and was already obvious to everyone, I have no problem with it.

The assigner knew what he was doing when he assigned you with those two. I think the best thing in this situation is to say nothing -- let the coach do the talking, empathize without throwing anyone under the bus, and get out of Dodge.

I don't think you meant to throw anyone under the bus, but you may have.

+1

I'm a little vague about where the line is drawn on what constitutes "throwing someone under the bus."

Years ago, I was watching a game as a spectator when an intentional foul was called on a made basket. Officials awarded 3 free throws, "one for the foul, two for the intentional." This struck several people in the crowd as wrong. Some of the people asked me.

"Was that right?"

How do you defend this?

"No, they made a mistake." And I quoted the correct ruling.

Some here said that I had stabbed the officials on the court in the back. I said I think not, but to each his own.

In the case at hand, the fact that I did extend my area and made so many calls was obvious and undeniable. We were not totally on the same page.
Does this reflect negatively on me or them? Like so many things, it depends on who you ask. The crowd was mainly on me. "THAT GUY is killing us." The coach took swipes at both during the game.
I made a call for him. "Can't somebody else call a foul?"
I made a call against him. "That's not your call."

If anything I said or did before, during, or after this game can be considered throwing anyone under anything, feel free to throw me with them.

In that particular situation, I think it would have been best to say nothing at all or if you can't get away with saying nothing, play dumb. By telling the fans the officials were wrong and quoting the correct ruling, you basically gave them all the ammo they needed to heckle the officials. Ex: "Joe over here is an official too and says you suck"

While I don't think you meant to throw your partners under the bus, you did. By telling the coach you had to be the man and step up and make calls outside your PCA, you basically told the coach that your partners sucked and you had to do everything for them.

When confronted with a situation like this, as has been said above, it's best to say nothing. Remember, a coach or whomever you are speaking to cannot "misquote" silence.

I'm not going to be lumped in with clowns who don't know the rules in that situation.

As for the situation with the H coach, I would just direct him to the assigner if at all possible.

The problem is this: You're not in an association meeting. You're sitting in the stands with a bunch of ignorant chuckleheads who want someone, anyone to validate their opinion that the officials suck. Even if those guys on the floor are right and you tell them, they then think you AND the officials are morons.

I've been in that position. My response? I'd have my phone in my hands looking like I wasn't even watching, sending an email or something. I do not, will not comment on the officiating with anyone other than another official.

As far as running into the coach in a BK, I would've said hello to him and left. If he brought up the game, I would've listened politely and left. The assigner knows he assigned weaker officials to the game and the last thing he needs is for the strong official on the crew to give the coach ammunition to go back to the assigner and say "I know you sent us two weak ones -- even JAR said he had to expand his.....", etc.

Maybe I'm overly paranoid. But beyond being polite and saying hi to a coach away from the gym, I'm not saying much else.

I'm trying not to judge -- I felt I was asked for an opinion and I gave it. Lord knows, I'm not always right....

the line is right where you say or imply or strongly hint that you were trying to "rescue" the game from the partners. Even to try to take the blame is just backhanded slamming.

"I'm not sure we saw the whole situation." "Those guys are pretty respected, I expect they know what they're doing" "Howard is our rules guy for all the little details. you'll have to ask him." "Sorry, I was talking on the phone" "Oh, I wasn't watching. Have you seen a red cap laying here somewhere?"

And what did you do in pre-game to get on the same page, and to be on the same page? I mean, in that game, knowing this new guy hadn't done 3-whistle before, you might have added a lot to his learning by really bending over backward to see that he DID call a few fouls and that they were good calls. End of the first quarter, if he's still pretty overwhelmed, you say okay, let's lock down in positions and just focus on the action, or give him carte blanche to call all over the floor. "I don't care where the next foul happens, it's your whistle". This is the kind of stuff I've experienced at 3-whistle camps for beginners and it really helps a lot to get over that first big barrier.
The crowd is mainly on you, but that's only because they don't understand, and you can't use it as a gauge. When one of you looks bad, you all look bad.
In order to look better yourself, and to not be in the position of trying to decide what to say to a coach later, you have to be more pro-active during the game to make it better.

Also, if you really think of it as "one for all and all for one" you are so embarrassed when you see that coach, that you just wave and walk out. Don't even want to explain.
Nah, you did it to yourself. We don't need to. Just learn your lesson, as we all should do when we err, and don't do it again.

I will never be afraid to state facts, especially facts that are already known by the person I am speaking to.

Example: I expanded my zone and made a lot of calls.

I will also never be afraid to state facts that are published in black and white.

Example: They were not entitled to 3 free throws in the above situation.

Your opinions are noted, and appreciated.:)

I will never be afraid to state facts either.

You threw your partners under the bus, have no remorse about doing so and would do it again in a hearbeat.

And that's a fact, Jack.

And it's also sad......

Good. Now you're lumped in with the clowns that would throw their partners under a bus instead. Yup, good choice.

There was the other option. Rich and Kingsman gave us the professional way. You don't criticize your fellow officials publically with non-officials. If you have complaints, feedback, etc., re: your officiating brethren, by all means bring 'em forth. But keep it in-house.

I understand the unwillingness either to endorse (what seems to me) an obviously blown call or to announce in the stands that the officials blew it.

But Rich is right: the people in the stands are partisan, and they are asking only for validation. They're not interested in learning the rules.

Furthermore, in many circumstances there might be things going on that I really didn't see from the stands: they might have gotten it right after all, based on what they saw. So even apart from "not throwing them under the bus," I'm shutting up because I might not have all of the info.

Rich's proposed solution is a great one: "I didn't see it," or maybe, "I'm not sure what the call was," which might be more honest. Of all the things you might say here, this is probably the best. IMHO.

Another aside: If the officials are right I won't say anything either, for one simple reason -- silence can't be misquoted, but sure can be interpreted if you are willing to talk only when you think the officials are right.

Your solution is the best one. "I'm not sure I saw the whole thing" or "I'm not sure what they called there -- maybe I missed something" is probably the more honest approach than pretending you saw nothing.

"Sorry, but I'm here to enjoy the game, not critique my associates"

Quite the Diplomat.....
 

And, if you drive a hundred and fifty miles north west, I've got a job for you! :p

The way that many people understand the word 'critique', they would interpret this as saying that the officials screwed up.

Here's the bottom line. I didn't say anything about my partners, that I wouldn't say in front of my partners or to my partners.

My partners were both kind of in over their heads. No, I never said this part, but everybody knew it.

What I said was, I tried to do a little (a lot) extra in order to help my less experienced crew members out, and to keep the game under control.

What was the net result? It's in the eyes of the beholders.

1) You would have said something like that in front of your partners to a coach? Have you got a death wish? Here's the bottom line. You shouldn't say anything about your partners to coaches, fans, etc. Ever!

2) And what you really said was your partners were bad and ol' JAR had to come to the rescue. And you said it to a coach.

3) The net result is that you threw 'em under the bus, JAR. And methinks every single beholder on here has told you that so far, some nicer than others.

Time to let it go. You ain't gonna change your mind, none of us are gonna change it for you, and you sureasheck will never change mine.

Here's a twist. I hadn't thought about this until now. It just so happens that several years ago, my second year to be registered and to call varsity games, I was sent to this same school. It was two whistle then, and my partner was a guy who was also registered for the second time. I had done lots of jr. high and rec games, partner had done some, but not as many. The two of us together had called less than 10 varsity games total. We were basically in the same position as my two partners in this one, but with no veteran guy to steady the ship. I was understandably apprehensive before the game, and very surprised to have gotten this assignment with this partner.

What if I'd seen one of the coaches the day after this one? The girls coach at the time was one of our association officials. In fact, he was one of the guys who awarded the 3 free throws on the intentional foul. What if I'd seen him the next day.

"Hey, man. We were kind of in over our heads last night. I hope the game didn't look too bad."

Would this be acceptable? Or would it only be acceptable because this guy was an official? He was the only one of the four that I knew that night. Both boys coaches in this last game are pretty good friends of mine. Is that a factor at all in anyone's assessment?

Give Them The Benefit Of The Doubt ...
 

Agree. Also, "It's usually two shots for an intentional, but maybe they had something else. I'll talk to them later. I'd like to know what they saw on that play. I'm probably missing something sitting here".

After reading this whole thread, here's my two cents

-In a three whistle crew, thee is no reason to fish in another persons pond. If you are the strongest official then use that in game management and dealing with the coaches.

-The reasons for fishing in another's pond with two weak partners are the same as if you were with two strong partners... I would not go chasing calls or expanding your area... I would be aware of what's going on but sometimes partners have to live and die by their calls

-I would not be the one who gets labeled as a bad partner and sometimes chasing calls will give reoutation as a bad partner.

- Talk about plays with them so they can get them right.

-By expanding your area you may be guessing at calls that you should not be guessing on. Maybe they actually did see the play and passed on it. Were there any mariginal calls that were made worse by calling it..

-Did this cause the game to have less of a flow?

-Sometimes you have a bad partner and GIGDGO

Pond ??? I'm Sure That You Meant To Say Lake ...
 

Lake Chaubunagungamaug is a lake in the town of Webster, Massachusetts. The name comes from Nipmuc, an Algonquian language, and is believed to mean, "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, and nobody fish in the middle".

I bet there's lotsa fouls in the middle.

My my, thank heaven for you.

Real leaders make those around them better. And then there's 'leaders' like you.

What he said.

My question to you is how did you try to engage your crew during the game?

Good crew chiefs elevate their crew's game by supporting and reinforcing their partners.

Both partners were varsity officials and need to be trusted to handle the consequences of their calls/no calls. If there is a non-basketball play, then absolutely go get it for the good of the game. But outside of that, I would highly discourage making calls "70 ft. from the play."

What partners? I'm talking about the play where the two officials awarded three FTs for an intentional foul. If I'm sitting with friends, and this happens, and they know and I know that we all are seeing the same thing and they ask me about it, I'm going to simply say "Yeah, it should be two FTs". I'm not talking about inciting a crowd of rednecks to heckle fellow officials....of course I wouldn't do that.

Please explain how they could possible "Have something else" on this play?

For the record, I would not have handled the situation at BK like JAR did. That is throwing your partners under the bus IMO.

What they could have had was a shooting foul (bucket was good) followed by a T, but that was clearly not what was signaled. Verified later that intentional foul was the call, but the penalty was improperly awarded.