Originally Posted by Skarecrow (Post 656687)

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

Originally Posted by Skarecrow (Post 656687)

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 656684)

GV. 3rd quarter. I'm Lead. Team A has a try from the opposite side of the floor from me.
Ball hits up top (I'm eyeing rebounding action) caroms, tip, bat, scramble, bat (last bat by A1 knocks ball into back court. A2 recovers ball in back court. Partner calls backcourt violation.

I get to my partner. "Partner, we had a try... did Team A have team control after the try?" He replies, "Yes, they had team control." Me, "you're sure?" Him, "yes".

I go to the throw-in spot and bounce the ball to the thrower.

After the game I tell him I think we kicked that one. He says that yeah, he guesses we did.

If it was a critical moment in the game, I would have probably slowed him down more, maybe review the sequence of events and try to get the correct outcome.

Any advice on language/techniques to get partner amenable to changing? Seems that in the moment he was committed to his call, and not eager to analyze.

Originally Posted by Skarecrow (Post 656687)

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 656706)

"partner, when did Team A establish/regain team control?"....

if your partner does not change his call, then it is a judgement call that may or may not come back to haunt him.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 656697)

"Partner, she never came close to controlling the ball, she only batted it. Are you sure you're happy with the call?"

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 656692)

Wrong. No team control, no violation.

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656729)

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656729)

1)Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

2) We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 656758)

Rep, look in the rule book under player control. Rule is 4-12. Your partner did not make a good call.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656768)

Casebook plays 4.12COMMENT and 4.12.6 might help him also.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656762)

1) What if it was?:confused: You still can't have a backcourt violation until player control is established.

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656796)

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 656800)

All that means is it's not technically a "pass," by rule, even if it's considered that by fans. It's a "bat," not a "pass."

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656796)

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 656800)

All that means is it's not technically a "pass," by rule, even if it's considered that by fans. It's a "bat," not a "pass."

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 656813)

Read the definition of pass.

Originally Posted by Skarecrow (Post 656687)

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656729)

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 656956)

Here's a thought. You need to stop telling people about the rules until you learn them yourself. You are an inexperienced, self-promoter, who is nothing more than a wet-nosed, puppy official. Right now you don't deserve anything other than a JV game. This whole situation is covered word-for-word in the Case Book, but despite what we tell you, you just won't learn. You still think that you already know everything. :(

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions.

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656961)

Nevada, What the hell?! I'm trying my best to turn myself around, and I even admitted TWICE in this thread that I was wrong and that i stood corrected.

Originally Posted by mj (Post 656981)

Representing, I think what Nevada is trying to say is do not post until you look it up yourself. You have been a member of this site for 2 months max and have over 400 posts. That is more posts than I have in 7 years on this site (and I officiate football and baseball too). It is a fabulous site to learn from but not if people are posting wrong rulings.

Be a lurker for a bit and listen to the vets on here (you'll know who they are after awhile). That and learning from your mistakes is how you're going to learn.

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 656990)

+1

Your pattern of posting goes like this: somebody posts a question, you post an answer off the top of your head, that answer's wrong and you're called on it, you get defensive, you argue, you post something else wrong, you complain about not getting varsity games, the correct answer is given again,you post "my bad."

Why not skip that initial post and just look up the answer first? Just a suggestion. :)

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 656995)

Amended, ;)

Originally Posted by representing (Post 656729)

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.