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-   -   Violation? When? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56782-violation-when.html)

CMHCoachNRef Thu Jan 28, 2010 05:48pm

Violation? When?
 
Team A scores a basket. Team A sets up aggressive man-to-man press. B3 goes out of bounds to inbound the ball. B1, very tightly guarded by A1 appears to be trying to get open by cutting hard to the endline on the opposite side of the lane from where B3 is standing for the throw-in.

B1 is unable to get open and continues over the endline (remember, A1 had just scored). B1 continues to cut toward B3. Eventually, B1 cuts BEHIND B3.

Scenario A: B1 eventually stops to the right of B3. B3 passes the ball to B4 and B1 returns to the court along with B3.

Scenario B: B1 continues on to the court and receives the inbounds pass.

Scenario C: B1 continues on to the court, but does not receive the inbounds pass.

Violation in any/all cases? For what?

Jurassic Referee Thu Jan 28, 2010 06:12pm

Legal in all cases.

AKOFL Thu Jan 28, 2010 06:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656477)
Legal in all cases.

I concur Dr.

Loudwhistle Thu Jan 28, 2010 07:37pm

Got Me!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 656467)
Team A scores a basket. Team A sets up aggressive man-to-man press. B3 goes out of bounds to inbound the ball. B1, very tightly guarded by A1 appears to be trying to get open by cutting hard to the endline on the opposite side of the lane from where B3 is standing for the throw-in.

B1 is unable to get open and continues over the endline (remember, A1 had just scored). B1 continues to cut toward B3. Eventually, B1 cuts BEHIND B3.

Scenario A: B1 eventually stops to the right of B3. B3 passes the ball to B4 and B1 returns to the court along with B3.

Scenario B: B1 continues on to the court and receives the inbounds pass.

Scenario C: B1 continues on to the court, but does not receive the inbounds pass.

Violation in any/all cases? For what?

Excellent Post! I have to admit I would have blown my whistle when he stepped out of bounds and I would have been wrong, never seen this type of move so hopefully my brain will remember if I ever do.

Nevadaref Thu Jan 28, 2010 09:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656477)
Legal in all cases.

Yep. Teammates are allowed to be OOB behind the end line during a throw-in following a made or awarded goal by the opponents.

grunewar Thu Jan 28, 2010 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 656511)
Yep. Teammates are allowed to be OOB behind the end line during a throw-in following a made or awarded goal by the opponents.

I seem to remember an interesting discussion we had on this "out of bounds topic" where all five players were behind the end line after the basket and then had a jail-break type scenario........

deecee Thu Jan 28, 2010 09:25pm

I dont understand why this concept is so complicated and difficult for some to either grasp or accept.

after a made basket the team throwing in the ball can have all 5 players out on the endline (period).

Loudwhistle Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 656512)
I seem to remember an interesting discussion we had on this "out of bounds topic" where all five players were behind the end line after the basket and then had a jail-break type scenario........

We did, I even copied it and gave it to a varsity coach. Haven't seen it happen yet.

grunewar Fri Jan 29, 2010 06:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 656513)
I dont understand why this concept is so complicated and difficult for some to either grasp or accept.

after a made basket the team throwing in the ball can have all 5 players out on the endline (period).

I believe it's because you just never see it done....and when you do, it catches many off guard and then you'll hear the inevitable - "HEY, THEY CAN'T DO THAT!"

Upward ref Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 656513)
I dont understand why this concept is so complicated and difficult for some to either grasp or accept.

after a made basket the team throwing in the ball can have all 5 players out on the endline (period).

The difficult part for me would be B 2,3,4 , etc stepping OOB after B1 gets the ball and is OOB for the throw -in . Doesn't seem like that part is specified in 7-5-7 a . from the wording i could conclude either way ,possibly . given that you experienced ref's aren't having a problem with this scenario ,I'd have to conclude that B2,3,4 etc can step out anytime before the 5 seconds has elapsed .

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward ref (Post 656622)
The difficult part for me would be B 2,3,4 , etc stepping OOB after B1 gets the ball and is OOB for the throw -in . Doesn't seem like that part is specified in 7-5-7 a . from the wording i could conclude either way ,possibly . given that you experienced ref's aren't having a problem with this scenario ,I'd have to conclude that B2,3,4 etc can step out anytime before the 5 seconds has elapsed .

Note that 7-5-7(a) says "teammate(s)"--singular or plural.

And note that rule 9-2-11 states that teammates being OOB after a throw-in begins is only a violation on a designated spot throw-in.

Upward ref Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656634)
Note that 7-5-7(a) says "teammate(s)"--singular or plural.

And note that rule 9-2-11 states that teammates being OOB after a throw-in begins is only a violation on a designated spot throw-in.

Good point , thanks . filed under my fine print section !

Anchor Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:33am

I would suppose that the obvious caveat with all this movement going on is that you maintain a very observable, visual 5-second count.

BBrules Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 656634)
Note that 7-5-7(a) says "teammate(s)"--singular or plural.

And note that rule 9-2-11 states that teammates being OOB after a throw-in begins is only a violation on a designated spot throw-in.

I looked in the casebook I have with me (08-09) and 7.5.7a deals with throw-in spots for goaltending and there is no 9.2.11. I don't have my rules book. Is the numbering different from the casebook? :confused:

Upward ref Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBrules (Post 656664)
I looked in the casebook I have with me (08-09) and 7.5.7a deals with throw-in spots for goaltending and there is no 9.2.11. I don't have my rules book. Is the numbering different from the casebook? :confused:

2009-2010 NFHS rule book ; rule 7, section 5,article 7 (a) : Any player of the team may make a direct throw in or he / she may pass the ball along the end line to teammate(s) outside the boundary .
2009-2010 case book ; there is no 9.2.11 . <>< :)


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