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johnsonboys03 Mon Jan 25, 2010 02:34pm

Line violation
 
If player A1 attempts to step out of bounds after player B1 makes a basket but doesn't get out of bounds and inbounds the basketball that in turn was stolen by B2 and put in the basket. what would the call be. I blew it dead waived off the basket and called a line violation. Was I correct?

bbcof83 Mon Jan 25, 2010 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 655260)
If player A1 attempts to step out of bounds after player B1 makes a basket but doesn't get out of bounds and inbounds the basketball that in turn was stolen by B2 and put in the basket. what would the call be. I blew it dead waived off the basket and called a line violation. Was I correct?

Throw-in violation by A1. Anything that came after doesn't matter. B's ball for a throw-in nearest the point of the violation.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 25, 2010 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 655260)
If player A1 attempts to step out of bounds after player B1 makes a basket but doesn't get out of bounds and inbounds the basketball that in turn was stolen by B2 and put in the basket. what would the call be. I blew it dead waived off the basket and called a line violation. Was I correct?

Yes, it's a throw-in violation. No such thing as a line violation. :)

johnsonboys03 Mon Jan 25, 2010 02:42pm

thank you!

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 655260)
If player A1 attempts to step out of bounds after player B1 makes a basket but doesn't get out of bounds and inbounds the basketball that in turn was stolen by B2 and put in the basket. what would the call be. I blew it dead waived off the basket and called a line violation. Was I correct?

Case book play 9.2.2SitC if you want to do some reading....

Indianaref Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 655283)
Case book play 9.2.2SitC if you want to do some reading....

Too easy

Refsmitty Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:53pm

Is it a violation if one of the feet is out of bounds while they hang the other over the end line?

Raymond Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 655294)
Is it a violation if one of the feet is out of bounds while they hang the other over the end line?

What do you think and why?

Refsmitty Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:56pm

I think it is and have called it once this year because the foot is breaking the plane - much like a free throw violation -

Mark Padgett Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 655296)
I think it is and have called it once this year because the foot is breaking the plane - much like a free throw violation -

So...if a player is holding the ball and they are standing on one foot inbounds and the other foot is "hanging" over the sideline, they are OOB? :confused:

Adam Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 655296)
I think it is and have called it once this year because the foot is breaking the plane - much like a free throw violation -

Really? What rule does it violate?

Refsmitty Mon Jan 25, 2010 04:01pm

Good points - well taken
 
:eek:

Adam Mon Jan 25, 2010 04:08pm

Now, here's a play:

A1 OOB for a throw in, takes a running start and leaps over the line before releasing the throwin pass. By the time he releases the pass, both feet are definitively over the in bounds area.

Call?

Refsmitty Mon Jan 25, 2010 04:23pm

Based on what I learned from this thread -I would go with 'nothing', but I will do some reading on it as well.

Adam Mon Jan 25, 2010 04:27pm

Actually, I was thinking it's a violation based on leaving the throw-in spot.

However, I'm not positive, as the definition of throw-in spot only specifies width while pointedly stating there is no depth limitation. Since it doesn't say anything about having a boundary equal to the boundary line, I have to say you're right. It's nothing.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 25, 2010 04:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 655317)
Actually, I was thinking it's a violation based on leaving the throw-in spot.

However, I'm not positive, as the definition of throw-in spot only specifies width while pointedly stating <font color = red>there is no depth limitation</font>. Since it doesn't say anything about having a boundary equal to the boundary line, I have to say you're right. It's nothing.

Right, there's no depth limitation either way. :)

Anchor Mon Jan 25, 2010 05:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 655294)
Is it a violation if one of the feet is out of bounds while they hang the other over the end line?

Yes, IF you were calling according to a rule book from sometime around 1982. That was changed many years ago so that presently the answer is no, and has been "no" for some time.

mbyron Mon Jan 25, 2010 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 655260)
I blew it dead waived off the basket and called a line violation. Was I correct?

No, the word is 'waved'. ;)

Nevadaref Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 655317)
Actually, I was thinking it's a violation based on leaving the throw-in spot.

However, I'm not positive, as the definition of throw-in spot only specifies width while pointedly stating there is no depth limitation. Since it doesn't say anything about having a boundary equal to the boundary line, I have to say you're right. It's nothing.

I disagree. The designated throw-in spot is entirely OOB. If the thrower does not have one foot over the OOB area, then he does not have at least one foot on or over the designated throw-in spot. I'd call a violation.

soundedlikeastrike Tue Jan 26, 2010 01:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 655305)
Now, here's a play:

A1 OOB for a throw in, takes a running start and leaps over the line before releasing the throwin pass. By the time he releases the pass, both feet are definitively over the in bounds area.

Call?


I don't work, just play, but would think traveling, unless it's after a made basket.

just another ref Tue Jan 26, 2010 01:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike (Post 655458)
I don't work, just play, but would think traveling, unless it's after a made basket.

The traveling and dribble rules are not in effect during a throw-in.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike (Post 655458)
I don't work, just play, but would think traveling, unless it's after a made basket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 655465)
The traveling and dribble rules are not in effect during a throw-in.

4.42.6 SITUATION: Following a personal foul by B3, the official indicates to
Team A that they shall inbound the ball from a spot 10 feet from the sideline. In
(a), A1 jumps in the air, over the designated spot, and passes the ball inbounds;
(b) A1 has one foot within the designated-spot area but lifts it from the floor as
the inbounds pass is made; or (c) A1 moves directly backwards from the designated
spot by 6 feet and passes the ball inbounds. RULING: Legal in (a), (b) and
(c). As long as the thrower maintains any portion of his/her body on or above the
3-foot designated-spot area while making the throw-in, the throw-in shall be
legal.

LEAVING DESIGNATED SPOT
7.6.3 SITUATION: A1 is out of bounds for a designated-spot throw-in. The
administering official has designated the spot and put the ball at A1’s disposal. In
order to avoid some of the defensive pressure near the throw-in spot, A1 takes
several steps directly backward, but keeps one foot on or over the designated
area prior to releasing the ball on a throw-in pass. RULING: Legal throw-in. It is
permissible for the thrower to move backward or forward within the 3-foot-wide
designated area without violating and he/she may move laterally if at least one
foot is kept on or over the designated area until the ball is released. The thrower
may also jump vertically and pass from the designated throw-in spot. COMMENT:
Pivot-foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in. The
thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released.

just another ref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 655420)
I disagree. The designated throw-in spot is entirely OOB. If the thrower does not have one foot over the OOB area, then he does not have at least one foot on or over the designated throw-in spot. I'd call a violation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 655474)
LEAVING DESIGNATED SPOT
7.6.3 SITUATION: RULING: Legal throw-in. It is
permissible for the thrower to move backward or forward within the 3-foot-wide
designated area without violating......

What do you think now?

Nevadaref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 655478)
What do you think now?

I think that he can move both backward and forward just as I did before.
What I do not believe is that he can jump forward beyond the boundary line such that no part of his body is over the OOB area of the throw-in spot prior to releasing the ball on the throw-in pass.

The wording that you note is there to clarify that the thrower can back up and then return forward again if desired. It does not state that he can jump over the line.

just another ref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 655482)
I think that he can move both backward and forward just as I did before.
What I do not believe is that he can jump forward beyond the boundary line such that no part of his body is over the OOB area of the throw-in spot prior to releasing the ball on the throw-in pass.

The wording that you note is there to clarify that the thrower can back up and then return forward again if desired. It does not state that he can jump over the line.


It also does not state that he can't. The only stated limit to the throw-in spot is its 3 foot width.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 655485)
It also does not state that he can't. The only stated limit to the throw-in spot is its 3 foot width.

Don't overlook the restrictions imposed by these sentences:

"As long as the thrower maintains any portion of his/her body on or above the
3-foot designated-spot area while making the throw-in, the throw-in shall be
legal."

"The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released."

Do you believe that the throw-in spot extends to the inbounds area of the court? Can a player legally make a throw-in from inbounds? ;)

just another ref Tue Jan 26, 2010 02:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 655486)
Don't overlook the restrictions imposed by these sentences:

"As long as the thrower maintains any portion of his/her body on or above the
3-foot designated-spot area while making the throw-in, the throw-in shall be
legal."

"The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released."

Do you believe that the throw-in spot extends to the inbounds area of the court? Can a player legally make a throw-in from inbounds? ;)

Right. The throw-in must be made from out of bounds. As long as he throws it before he comes down, he's still out of bounds. Meanwhile, he hasn't left the throw-in spot, because its only restriction is its three foot width.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 26, 2010 03:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 655490)
Right. The throw-in must be made from out of bounds. As long as he throws it before he comes down, he's still out of bounds. Meanwhile, he hasn't left the throw-in spot, because its only restriction is its three foot width.

My point was that if he can't legally stand there and throw the ball, then he can't throw the ball from above that location either as he wouldn't be keeping a foot on or over the spot.

Please think about that for a bit and then post your thoughts tomorrow.

just another ref Tue Jan 26, 2010 03:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 655500)
My point was that if he can't legally stand there and throw the ball, then he can't throw the ball from above that location either as he wouldn't be keeping a foot on or over the spot.

Please think about that for a bit and then post your thoughts tomorrow.

My thoughts are that the whole point of the throw-in spot is that the thrower can't move along the line.

Adam Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:47am

My initial thoughts were that the definition of the spot precluded a player from engaging in the play I mentioned. After reading the wording, however, I have to change that opinion. The fact is, there is no specific wording that prevents the action. I don't believe there is signficant enough advantage gained on this play to warrant calling a violation without specific rules declaring it illegal.


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