New NFHS 3-second rule?

Self · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 24, 2002, 06:28pm

How many of you like this new rule. Of all the rule changes this year I like all the others, but this one if called by the book will give you alot of headaches.

Before in the old rule when coach was yelling 3-seconds, you could always say, "no one has control coach". Now by the rule as long as team control hasn't been lost you can have 3-seconds. This to me was a terrible change, and probably one that will be ignored.

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 24, 2002, 06:49pm

I think you're misunderstanding the rule. Player control was never required to have 3 seconds. Let's say the ball is being passed, deflected by the defense, and is loose. Under the old rule, the count continued. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is that there's no longer an exception for an interrupted dribble.

BTW, when has 3 seconds ever been called by the book?

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 24, 2002, 10:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think you're misunderstanding the rule. Player control was never required to have 3 seconds. Let's say the ball is being passed, deflected by the defense, and is loose. Under the old rule, the count continued. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is that there's no longer an exception for an interrupted dribble.

BTW, when has 3 seconds ever been called by the book?

Tony,
I have never called 3-seconds during an interrupted dribble.
Now, I am not sure I'll be able to even see 3-seconds and an interrupted dribble at the same time.
Do you suppose the interrupted dribble will occur in the paint? I don't.

mick

BktBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 24, 2002, 11:10pm

I'm missing your point, mick.

I'm not advocating that it be called or not be called. I'm just clarifying that player control has nothing to do with 3 seconds.

I really don't anticipate anyone is going to change the way they call 3 seconds.

Self · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 07:07am

I realize it takes team control not player control for 3-secondss. My statement "no one had control could be said legitimately before.....

Example, Team A has control of the ball, A drives the line and the ball is hit by B or is just lost. Both A and B scramble for the ball in the lane. No possession by anyone.

Old rule you could always say "no one has control coach". By the rule book you would be correct. This is an interruprted dribble, and contrary to what has been said I see this alot. A player loosing possession in the lane...

Now with the new rule, team A is still in control of the ball, so per the rule if the ball is being batted around after the above occurance in the lane. It would be 3-seconds on team A.

Am I calling it no, are some going to call it probably. To me they just messed with something that was already fine.

But what else is new........

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 07:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm missing your point, mick.

I'm not advocating that it be called or not be called. I'm just clarifying that player control has nothing to do with 3 seconds.

I really don't anticipate anyone is going to change the way they call 3 seconds.

Tony,
I was alluding to (and Self touched on it) the difficulty of one official being able to see both the 3-second violation and the interrupted dribble at the same time with all the associated actions

3-second guy leaving the lane

player contact due to the loose ball "in the lane"

the team in actual possession

In order to make this call based on reality, I think we'll actually have to be "at 4" before the interrupted dribble occurs.

mick

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 08:16am

I just don't see a big change it the way it's being called. Previously, during a deflected pass, 3 seconds could be called. Now, during an interrupted dribble, 3 seconds can be called. The same problems exist for the official calling 3 seconds in both plays. I just don't see where the change will make a difference.

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I just don't see a big change it the way it's being called. Previously, during a deflected pass, 3 seconds could be called. Now, during an interrupted dribble, 3 seconds can be called. The same problems exist for the official calling 3 seconds in both plays. I just don't see where the change will make a difference.

I guess it's possible that some ump could be so intent on calling "3 in the lane" that he never does see where the ball is. I reckon this rule could eliminate a possible confrontation between a fixated official and a losing Coach hoping for "anything".

Self · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 01:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I just don't see a big change it the way it's being called. Previously, during a deflected pass, 3 seconds could be called. Now, during an interrupted dribble, 3 seconds can be called. The same problems exist for the official calling 3 seconds in both plays. I just don't see where the change will make a difference.

The big difference I see is by the book if team control is present they have now emphasized calling 3-seconds. Whether a deflected pass or interrupted dribble if I didn't feel a team ACTUALLY had control of the ball I was not going to call it. I still am not going to call it..You are correct they are mirroring the deflected pass with this rule change. To me they are emphasizing making the call.

The problem I see especially after talking with NFHS rules committee people as with swinging of the elbows. It is changed to a violation in hopes to be called more to help eliminate aggressive play by the players. The thought as it was written is your violation for swinging the elbows will be called more now since the penalty is not as great. They want it called..... The 3-second philosophy falls under their same thought process. If the ball is loose in the lane, they want 3-seconds to be called to eliminate the scramble. I disagree with this philosophy.

I just think they changed something that didn't need changing. It will be soon be seen as a point of emphasis, you heard it here first.

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 07:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Self
It will be soon be seen as a point of emphasis, you heard it here first.

That's okay. We're only allowed to call POEs the first two weeks of the season anyway!

Self · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 25, 2002, 07:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Self
It will be soon be seen as a point of emphasis, you heard it here first.

That's okay. We're only allowed to call POEs the first two weeks of the season anyway!

Do preseason tournaments count?

Refneck · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 26, 2002, 10:32am

I think the key term to remember in this situation, especially with a coach is, "no advantage". Any coach worth a darn will understand what you mean. If they don't they probably lack credibility anyway. JMHO.

ballsandstrikes · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:54am

I am trying to remember the last time I called 3 seconds. I think it was back in 1992. I was just out of high school doing a elementary school girls game when all 10 girls went for the loose ball on the ground in the middle of the lane :0

johnSandlin · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:54pm

Here is my recommendation, if at all costs, DO NOT start calling 3 seconds if you can.

Kelvin green · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 28, 2002, 01:37pm

I disagree. We dont call enough three seconds. Talk to them once or twice and then call it. That's the way you clean up a lot of low post garbage. They know they have to keep moving, the defense knows theyre not getting screwed, and have to push and shove because we wont get them out.