Another Gurian Thread -- Independence

[rainmaker]

Another Gurian item that I really see a lot in basketball, both in reffing and in the players is "The Need for Independence."

Gurian's words are, "...boys need space, a comfort zone, an amplified sense of not being threatened....Think of the boy who will not go for help when attacked by a bigger boy, but instead, decides to take care of it himself." He points out that "many girls are very independent, many boys are not, but boys learn quickly that being part of a group does not mean one has to lose one's independence, and being part of a couple need not mean that either."

He points out that men tend to define themselves by their interests and abilities, where women tend to define themselves by their relationships. As always, these are generalizations that don't apply to every individual, but represent trends, or patterns.

It seems especially obvious in the male basketball leagues, where each team needs a "Star" and this person is the focus. He plays his game and the others sort of fit in around him. It appears to me that the women players use team-work a lot more, and it shows especially in the way they sub in more in twos and threes. I like the women's game a lot better, partly because it looks more like basketball, and not entertainment, but also because the women play more like I would want to play if I were capable. I respond to their style.

This independence thing shows up, too, in the attitude I see in a lot of refs -- go to meetings, go to games, do the job, go home. It's been a big adjustment for me, since I am very relational, and took it personally that others weren't being as friendly as I wanted. I finally started realizing that it's just who these guys are -- they're guys! And the culture is that friendship is defined differently for men than for women, and I needed to get my head around that.

The usual disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with everything this writer says, but I've noticed things in basketball that tend to back him up.

[zebraman]

Huh?

[Oz Referee]

Juulie,

Interesting theory, and one that I agree with, and disagree with at the same time.

Although boys generally have a greater desire for independance, I would argue that boys are generally more willing to let go of that independance to become part of the group. Look at fraternities, gangs, the military and team sports - all these areas basically demand that the individual cease to exist when they become a part of the group - and these groups are largely dominated by males.

IMHO males are more willing to join groups than females, however once in a group, women consider the ramifications of their actions in terms of the group, whereas men consider their indvidual needs first.

This translates back to basketball, and the point you made about women playing better "team" basketball than men.

[theboys]

Ok, how about this goofy idea?

The fact that men's basketball has much more showboating than women's basketball is due to men's evolutionary wiring to impress females with mating dances, showy displays, etc, etc.

Very interesting ideas you put forth there, Oz.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
[B]Although boys generally have a greater desire for independance, I would argue that boys are generally more willing to let go of that independance to become part of the group. Look at fraternities, gangs, the military and team sports - all these areas basically demand that the individual cease to exist when they become a part of the group - and these groups are largely dominated by males.

You are right in line with what Gurian talks about, because the next thread I post on this subject will be about men in groups -- men are more likely to run in larger groups, such as gangs, or military troops, but have to balance that off with the need to have a sense of self-reliance and independence. The need for a strong individuality is still there, even in the group, and needs to be constantly re-asserted. He says that our society has over emphasized the rugged-individualism aspect of male nature which makes men tend to feel lonely and isolated, which leads them to unhealthy practices such as substance abuse, violence and destructive irresponsibility. He thinks we need to emphasize the "tribe" so that men can have the kind of groups they need to balance off the independence.

[Mark Padgett]

Juulie- there's an old joke about why a dog does something. It's the same thing with men. They act that way because they can.