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-   -   Not using it any more. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56544-not-using-any-more.html)

Nevadaref Tue Jan 19, 2010 02:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 653078)
I may be repeating what others are saying, but after reading your post I wanted to immediately respond.

The stop sign is a good sign, whether it works on coaches or not. Everyone will see it, including your partner(s). ESPECIALLY your partner(s). This tells your partner(s) "this coach has been given a warning to shut up, next time he/she get's the big T". I use it all the time and will make eye contact with my partner(s) so he/she/they know that the coach has been given a warning and next time it is the big "T". That way there's no second warnings if one of your partner(s) has a problem with the same coach.

The stop sign is a good signal. Everyone will see it and will know that next time the coach will probably get a deserved "T". That's all I have to say.
So can you point out which signal it is to me on the chart in the back of the rules book? I'm having trouble locating this NFHS approved signal.

representing Tue Jan 19, 2010 02:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653085)
So can you point out which signal it is to me on the chart in the back of the rules book? I'm having trouble locating this NFHS approved signal.
Never said it was approved. Just saying that it is an obvious sign as to what it means. No one in their right mind is going to think this signal is like saying "hey coach, I want you to yell at me some more and get the fans all wiled up so that they can yell at me even more and let this game get out of control".

I think my point is made. Going to bed now

Nevadaref Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 653088)
Never said it was approved. Just saying that it is an obvious sign as to what it means. No one in their right mind is going to think this signal is like saying "hey coach, I want you to yell at me some more and get the fans all wiled up so that they can yell at me even more and let this game get out of control".

I think my point is made. Going to bed now
Actually, it means "you've just yelled at me in an unsporting manner, but I'm not going to penalize you." It's totally useless.

just another ref Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 653078)

The stop sign is a good signal. Everyone will see it and will know that next time the coach will probably get a deserved "T". That's all I have to say.
The problems I have are these. A signal like this is not anything official, so it has no specific meaning.

Everyone will see it?

How do we know what everyone sees?

(Everyone) will know that next time the coach will probably get a deserved T.

Every will know what he will probably get? This would mean that everyone will also know that he may not get anything.

Give a stop sign if you want. Not saying it absolutely won't help. I just say not to depend on anyone knowing that it has any certain meaning, because it doesn't.

truerookie Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653085)
So can you point out which signal it is to me on the chart in the back of the rules book? I'm having trouble locating this NFHS approved signal.
You are correct it is not an approved signal. However, some states associations would like for you to use it before penalizing.

truerookie Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:33am
JRut,

The premise I see from your post is. You had to penalize coaches from states outside of yours. Have you giving thought, that their local officials may not use the STOP sign.?

representing Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 653090)
The problems I have are these. A signal like this is not anything official, so it has no specific meaning.

Everyone will see it?

How do we know what everyone sees?

(Everyone) will know that next time the coach will probably get a deserved T.

Every will know what he will probably get? This would mean that everyone will also know that he may not get anything.

Give a stop sign if you want. Not saying it absolutely won't help. I just say not to depend on anyone knowing that it has any certain meaning, because it doesn't.
Yeah, you got me. I'm sorry.

What I'm saying is the most important thing is that the coach gets one warning (unless sever which would be automatic T). The stop signal and saying "Coach, I've heard enough" is all you need to do to let the coach know that a T is coming if he/she keeps it up. Next time, give a T.

End of story, heading to bed cause I gotta get up in two hours for work. Night all.

Time2Ref Tue Jan 19, 2010 04:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653085)
So can you point out which signal it is to me on the chart in the back of the rules book? I'm having trouble locating this NFHS approved signal.
I'm not saying that I use the Stop Sign. I'm just saying that I found it in the "NFHS Basketball Officials Manual".

2.5.3 Warnings:
.......B.4. A warning of this nature is typically given verbally ("This is your warning coach") and visually (holding up the one-handed "stop sign").

Same in three-person......... 3.5.3.B.4.

Personally, I believe that a coach already had his/her warning before the game even started. It's right there in the "Coaches Code of Ethics".......)

(Ok now I'm being just plain silly......

Nevadaref Tue Jan 19, 2010 04:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Ref (Post 653096)
I'm not saying that I use the Stop Sign. I'm just saying that I found it in the "NFHS Basketball Officials Manual".

2.5.3 Warnings:
.......B.4. A warning of this nature is typically given verbally ("This is your warning coach") and visually (holding up the one-handed "stop sign").

Same in three-person......... 3.5.3.B.4.

Personally, I believe that a coach already had his/her warning before the game even started. It's right there in the "Coaches Code of Ethics".......)

(Ok now I'm being just plain silly......
Oh, it's in there all right, but when mentioning it please don't forget to notice what it says in 3.5.3 B1: "Though no provision provides for this in the rules book..."

Time2Ref Tue Jan 19, 2010 06:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653101)
Oh, it's in there all right, but when mentioning it please don't forget to notice what it says in 3.5.3 B1: "Though no provision provides for this in the rules book..."

You are correct, sir!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

mbyron Tue Jan 19, 2010 07:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653101)
Oh, it's in there all right, but when mentioning it please don't forget to notice what it says in 3.5.3 B1: "Though no provision provides for this in the rules book..."
Thank you, oh rules writers, for this pewky pearl of prose.
http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-31.gif

Nevadaref Tue Jan 19, 2010 07:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 653118)
Thank you, oh rules writers, for this pewky pearl of prose.
http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-31.gif
I see that you have nicely kept with the "p" alliteration. ;)

JRutledge Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 653092)
JRut,

The premise I see from your post is. You had to penalize coaches from states outside of yours. Have you giving thought, that their local officials may not use the STOP sign.?
You would have to assume that all officials are using the "stop sign" in my area. I do not know that every official has to use this or tries to use this. So it is not about the area, it is about the coach. If it works I would not have to give a T. I am just not convinced it works and I think it incites more than it stops actions. And it has nothing to do with approved or not approved signal. I think I will get back to the words I use and make it very clear they have crossed a line or just stick them when appropriate.

Peace

Rich Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 653089)
Actually, it means "you've just yelled at me in an unsporting manner, but I'm not going to penalize you." It's totally useless.
Are you actually saying that on the first instance of any unsporting yelling you'd issue a technical foul? Always?

While I find the stop sign silly, I do believe in shutting down bad behavior without shooting free throws when possible rather than pulling out a sledgehammer to kill an ant.

Adam Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:41am
My problem with the stop sign is that it comes across as dismissive. We talk all the time about how coaches should not be allowed to show us up, yet this signal does that very thing to the coach. Geese and Ganders come to mind here.

I've had much better success speaking quietly to them and letting them vent (appropriately), and I've witnessed good veteran officials do the same.

If your association wants you to do it so you have something the video will catch, so be it. I don't need that, as my report (every T gets one here) will be good enough for my assigners.


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