Six players on the court
 

Three minutes or so into the fourth quarter we have a common foul and the ball is awarded at the baseline for an inbound play. I'm Lead administering the ball, just after I hand the ball to Black a White Sub comes to the table. Trail didn't see him (nor did C or L) but the horn sounds and the player comes on the court to sub. Six players on the court is a Tech, but what I want to know is what I (as lead) could have done better and us as a crew could have done better, as well as any additional insight you have.

Thanks.

YouTube - Tech1 2010_01_15_11_33_43.avi

Your T here is for the sub coming in without being beckoned rather than for 6 players. The difference is a sub T is charged directly to the player, while a 6 player T is simply a team T.

This one's tough to prevent, too.

If the sub came to the table just as you handed the ball to the player, and the horn sounded afterward, you did nothing wrong. The horn should not have sounded, and even if it did, the sub should not have entered without being beckoned.

The player running out is not something you have control over.

I would suggest that you could have blown your whistle to acknowledge the horn and stop the inbound, as oftentimes players will stop when they hear the horn.

Did you let the T handle your call/no call? and do all the heavy lifting? You had all the information.

I personally don't do this, because now you have to let the sub in and I'd prefer not to. From this situation, this T needed to be called for this player to learn.

And I would argue that the L should've seen that sub coming up to the table and withheld the throw-in. He was essentially at the X when the ball was handed to the thrower-in. The last thing I do before handing the ball is look at the table and it doesn't appear the L did.

In this situation, I'd hit the whistle, take the ball back, and allow the sub. No T. I would talk to the kid about not coming in on the horn and wait to be beckoned, but we shouldn't have had the horn in the first place.

The OP asked for a possible way to prevent this which is what I offered.

Right. My bad.

Fair enough. Now, Rich makes a good point, the events (hand off and player getting to the X) are pretty close together. I'm not against his advice on this, and have done just that on occasion. If, however, the coach has made a habit of sending subs to the table at just this moment, I won't do it.

I am with RichMSN, the very last thing I do before handing the ball to the inbounder is to glance at the table. If he's close, I will just hold up and point towards the table therefore notifying the table side official that a sub is coming in. In this case, I would have killed it, since the buzzer sounded, kept the player out and started back up with the throw in. No harm done.

Yes. And maybe that is something I could do differently. My thought/justification was that He knew that he didn't beckon the sub in and there was more controversy over that than having them sub during play. I didn't think about it much I guess. He explained to the coach the situation and I just administered the FTs.

I disagree.

The player doesn't even appear on screen until the whistle is blown to inbound the ball. He doesn't reach the middle of the bench to report as a sub until the ball is in the player's hands.

I often have coaches who send their kid to the bench right as the ball is inbounding because they want them to be ready at the next opportunity for a substitution.

Once the whistle is blown to put the ball in play, my eyes aren't at the table. My eyes are on the players, anticipating anything that may happen.

So, Clark, I think you guys did a great job (except for the type of T that was called). This was a horn operator error, as well as the kid's fault for coming in un-beckoned, and you guys did the best you could with it.

The whistle is irrelevant. Why is it being blown anyway?

Unless it took exceptionally long to report the foul that preceded the video, I agree.

If you blow the whistle and kill the play, by (NFHS) rule you must allow the substitution.

You're not completely with Rich, he'd have allowed the sub.

Besides:

I would have stopped play and made the sub go back and wait for the next dead ball. I also would have taken a second to talk to the table about not hitting the horn if we're already in putting the ball in play.

Playing devil's advocate....how much of a pregame did you do with the table crew?

It's obvious (to me, anyway) when a coach is holding back a sub for the next opportunity. If the kid is walking up to the table and isn't delaying things for more than a second or two, I'm holding up and letting him in.

Clearly, others' mileage varies.

In this instance with the horn blowing, I'm not pulling out a sledgehammer to handle what could be done with a quick whistle and a quick word. Again, others' mileage varies.

Again, there is no rules justification for holding an eligible substitute out. If you stop play to prevent the T, you have just created a new opportunity to substitute, and you must allow the eligible sub to enter the game.

I don't know why it's being blown but that's not the point. I'm using the whistle as a frame of reference.

The point is that all three officials were ready and focused the fact that the ball was actively being put in play. The player only got to the bench when the ball was already in the player's hands, meaning the ball is live. At that point, as an official, I don't focus on the bench. If the ball is in the hands of the thrower, my attention is on the action on the floor.

I don't think its fair to say, based on the video, that the officials were slacking here. The player came late to the bench, and the horn operator was at fault for sounding the horn.

It would be safe to say then that if we wouldn't have had an inadvertant horn, the sub wouldn't have come in. Usually when the horn sounds everyone stops, for at least a split second anyway. Using common sense, I would go explain that even though the horn sounded, it was too late and I would keep the sub out. I understand since you have a dead ball now that the sub in all rights should be able to come in but from a teaching standpoint, I would keep him out because rightfully, he should not be on the floor yet

Fixed it for you. If you're in some sort of teaching environment, ok. I've found the kids learn just as quickly when I enforce the rules as written; tell the thrower to play on. In the video, I'd have gone with the T (assuming I didn't slow down seeing the sub come in).
The biggest lesson needed is for the player to know he has to wait until the refs tell him he can come in. One T and he'll never forget. A talk from the official? He'll forget by the next morning.

What are you teaching? That's it's OK for officials to ignore a plainly written rule because they don't like or agree with that rule? That it's OK to go ahead and make up their own rules if their "common sense" tells them that they're right and the rules are wrong?

Lah me......

That would work too. The problem that helped this situation was the horn that should not have been blown. Some of the clock keepers that I am around tend to listen to a coach yelling "sub, sub, sub" and even before they get to the X, they are buzzing the horn. After a discussion with them about this, it rarely happens again, at least on this particular night. Good discussion here.

Every time the horn blows in this case, I tell the thrower to continue. Typically, the players know to wait for us around here, so I wouldn't have caught any grief for the T.

So to make sure that I understand correctly, on every substitution occurance, after the horn sounds, there is never ever a time where you don't beckon on the subs during the course of a game? I know you would blow your whistle to stop play and so forth, I understand that, but at some point, I don't always see the beckoning on signal. I have seen this on college games on TV and even the ESPN high school games. I am not disagreeing with how this whole situation was handled, just giving my input. This kid heard the horn and came on the court. Did he learn a lesson? Yes, I think he did. Next time, he will wait to be beckoned on the court, I am sure.

Center / Trail - never looked at table.
 

I would have thought the center would have seen the player standing up, coming to the table prior.

The trail was walking from the center of the court never glanced over to the table. If he did, he would have seen the sub.

Was the ball put back in play too quickly?

At the high school levels here, the players all look at the officials before going onto the court. If I'm standing right in front of them, I'll simply tell them verbally to come in.

Snaqwells, they do the same thing here. That was my thought. Without the horn, no problem would have occurred but it did and then as officials you have to handle it from there.

Agreed, but you're initially faced with two options.
1. Blow the whistle and let the sub in.
2. Tell the thrower to continue. With that option, I'd like to see the T put his hand up and tell the sub to wait.

If you go with #2 (and I would normally), and the sub comes running in anyway, you have a 2nd chance to blow it dead. If you do this, talk to him, but you really should let him enter at this point. If not (and I wouldn't, but some would), call the T.

Under NFHS rules this "second stoppage" is a new opportunity to substitute. All eligible subs can enter at this point and, by rule, the official must allow the eligible subs to enter.

That would be because the NCAA rule is different. Subs are not allowed to come in the game because of accidental whistles.

If you actually did see this, it was incorrect if the high schools were playing under NFHS rules.

Bottom line is, don't over-think this situation. There are very few exceptions when substitutions aren't allowed during a dead ball while the clock is stopped. Those are during multiple free throws (subs wait until the period before final free throw) and when subs report after the warning horn during a TO or intermission. I can't think of any other time when an eligible sub may not enter the game.

The game is easier to administer if you don't create new administrative restrictions. Keep it simple.

So in this case, would you say the inadvertant horn could create a fiasco? Some players stop when they hear the horn, some don't. The sub coming in is part way on the floor before the T sees him and sends him back off? I understand completely about once the horn sounds, you should let him in then. I am just saying, let's try to avoid the confusion and get the game going again. Put the sub in, put the ball in and play on.

No, the sub can come in once the whistle blows. The horn is officially irrelevant in this case, so you ignore it. That's why I tell the thrower to play on, all the players will get it quickly enough.

If you decide to blow the whistle and kill it, let him in.

Yes, this whole mess was created by a over eager timer, or a coach who yelled "Sub" as he sent young Mr. Snuffy to the table combined with a timer who is used to listening to the coach.

Add one more letter to this sentence and it will tell you everything you need to know about why I exist. :D

I as the Lead, should have seen the sub and not administered the ball. To be honest I don't remember seeing him at the table until after when you hear my funky whistle (5 tweets in a row) but i do remember looking at T.

I also take it the majority of you don't blow your whistle before inbounding the ball on the opponents end line. Is that correct?

I blow my whistle to start the game, to start the quarters, after timeouts, or after an unusual delay (judgment call).

Depends on if there's been a delay prior to the inbound play. Where the ball is inbounded is irrelevant to whether or not you blow your whistle.

So....you never blow your whistle to indicate a foul or violation? Whose whistle do you blow? :D

Hopefully a whistle belonging to someone who practices the First Rule of officiating! :)

I carry my 5-year old (tomorrow) daughter under my arm and tell her to scream when I need to stop play. She's louder and shriller than my Fox40.

Question for anyone, do you usually blow your whistle to end a quarter? That has been brought up to us as a point of emphasis since the horn actually does not signal the end of the quarter. Would like to hear if other states are the same way.

We've had this conversation before.

The horn (or light) actually does signal the end of the quarter, with 4 exceptions. Can you name them?

One is "it's not working". :p

Ok, smarty pants, I meant 4 exceptions from the rule book...

Very nice. I like this. Not a bad idea to have that sledgehammer around, though.:D

I knew this was going to happen
 

Last night we were working just a brutal game (see thread F-I-F-T-Y fouls) and after halftime we were just about to start the second half. I'm the U, 2-person.

I counted 10 players and just as I dropped my hand and just before the R was going to bounce to the thrower in a sixth player from the visiting team ran onto the floor. She was talking with the coach at or near the sideline after the huddle and must've thought she was in.

I hit my whistle before the ball ever became live (and gave a few strong tweets) and got her off the floor. The home coach wanted to know why it wasn't a technical and I told her we never made the ball live and we fixed it before the half started. Good enough for her. The home fans, though, kept up about it for a minute or so (you know, while we were calling the first 4 fouls of the half).

ClarkKent... when I look at the video...
 

...I see the majority of the white players not ready to play when the ball became live.
-- Trail official is just getting into position.

I don't know what preceded, but the handing of the ball to the thrower seems to have happened quickly.

Personally, I don't wait for the players to be ready. When I'm ready to hand it, I do it. The players will get ready quickly.