"Countdown" allowed or not?
 

Had this the other night. Right before the end of the first quarter, the home team had the ball and they were up a few points. It's was obvious they were holding for the last shot of the quarter. This gym has only one scoreboard on the wall and it was "behind" them. When the clock got down to five seconds, the home book keeper at the table started yelling the seconds left really loud, apparently to help his team.

At the half, I told him he couldn't do that as he was part of the officiating crew and had to remain neutral. He apologized and that was that.

We had almost the same game situation near the end of the second quarter and I looked over at the guy. He looked back at me and smiled, then gave the "zip your lip" gesture while nodding his head. The clock went off and we both chuckled.

Would any of your guys done anything different? I didn't want to "punish" the team by blowing the whistle and stopping the clock when he did it, I thought just letting it go and then admonishing him was the best way to handle it.

That's how I would have done it.

Just a thought, but since there was only one scoreboard on one end of the gym, why wouldn't the clock operator do this anyway, and for both teams at the end of each period?

I do agree it's technically not the book keeper's responsibility, but perhaps they had set up that arrangement at the table because the book person has the louder voice?

Just thinking out loud. (Well, as loud as my keyboard gets.)

The answer that jumps to my mind is: that's not his job.

If coaches or players want to count down, I have no problem with that. Since it does constitute assistance, that's properly the job of a coach or teammate.

I don't think it's a good idea for them to do that even if the agreement was that they would do it for both teams. If Team B never had the ball at that end of the gym as time was running out - it would still appear as if Team A was getting favoritism even if that was not the case - just different circumstances.

This is what happens during college games, especially with the shot-clock. I would allow that as it isn't in the rulebook that they could not do that. But I wouldn't allow the scorer to do that as it is not listed as one of their duties.

Totally agree

As long as we atre talking about the table workers being part of the officiating crew and have to remain neutral, can the person keeping the book for the visiting team assist his coach by answering questions regarding NFHS rules or give his teams coach advice?? If the table is part of the officiating crew most of the games I have seen they do not seem like they are aware of that.

mb,
I agree. At the same time, ironically, in HS SOCCER games, the timer/announcer is to count down the final 10 seconds.

The visitor's book is not really part of the crew, but they are afforded the courtesy of a spot at the table. My only real requirement is that they refrain from commenting about the officiating. I'd have no problem with rules answers or such things, nor even coaching advise. It could be the coach for the next level up.

Concerning countdowns, the past couple of games I've done as shot clock operator in the main gym, it was at the officials' request that the countdown be done under 10-sec. on shot clock. This is done in case the shot clock buzzer goes off for shot clock violations so the timer can buzz as the shot clock buzzer isn't heard that clearly when the crowd is boisterous.

However, the only ones I hear doing the regular clock countdown are fans, coach(es), or teammates.

I'm not talking about a situation where both teams have equal access to the clock(s) on both ends of the court; in that case I agree the table should not be providing extra assitance. I'm talking about this instance where there is only one clock/scoreboard on only one end of the floor, and (go figure) it happens to favor the home team in that it is within their view in the second half.

I had a similar situation come up in an NCAA game involving a shot clock, where one shot clock, on one end of the floor, did not work. We were told by the NCAA rules secretary at the time that it was indeed the table's responsibility to verbally count down the time when the shot clock neared expiration during the possessions on the side where the clock did not work. This was to be done for both teams, in both halves. It was determined that the table needed to provide the information equally to both teams, and it was an unfair advantage for one team to see a clock while the other could not.

I'm just extending that logic to this situation. If there's only one clock/scoreboard, and it's on the side of the court where both teams have to look to the side to see it, then both teams are equally advantaged/disadvantaged, and no additional table help is needed. If there's only one clock on one end, then I would have the table verbally count down (say, under 10 seconds) for each period, for both teams, when the offense is on the opposite end of the floor.

But you are talking about the shot clock operator counting it down for the timer, not so everyone on the court can hear.

Two totally different animals.

Although the shot clock operator may be seated next to the team's bench who might get the violation & the coach can hear the countdown, or the coach can hear the countdown with their team on defense to hold the other team from shooting to make sure they get the shot clock violation.

So in some ways the coach might have an advantage.

Periodically, I've heard the coach start doing the countdown to their team with the shot clock less than 10-sec.

BTW in both gyms, there's a scoreboard on each endline to the left of the backboard (when looking at that backboard). The shot clock displays are located to the right of each backboard.

What level of basketball was it? If it's a lower level game in a not-so-great facility with a clock the players couldn't see, I'd have no problem with the clock operator calling out the time at the end of periods for BOTH teams. I'd also reccomend if doing this, to let both head coaches know what is going on before the game.

I have a similar problem in a rec gym I work at. It has a single clock at one end, and some of the players started routinely counting down the WRONG time when the other team had the ball at the end of a period. They did this on purpose to get the opponent to rush the shot by counting ahead, or to get the clock to expire before a shot by counting behind.

Since I ref here every week, I banned all counting down by coaches or players as unsporting. They all complied and I never had to T anyone. I still occasionally have a coach forget and count to help his own team, but unless the count is incorrect, I let it go.

The fans still count (I can't T them), but the fans always count correctly to help their own team. I haven't had any unsporting fans with intentionally wrong counts yet.

You mean sometimes a coach is counting down to help his own team and he's counting incorrectly? Isn't that the same test you're given for DUI (not that I would know)? ;)

Why not just ban counting by the opposing team, or just tell them if you think they're trying to deceive the other team you'll call the T? You've got rules backing for that (not that it's overly important in rec ball, but still.)

Concerning the countdown of time under 10-sec. for game time, in the "Instructions to & Duties of the Timer" it states:

NEAR THE END OF PLAYING TIME:
1. If a watch is being used as the official timepiece, place it so that the timer may see it & the ball. The watch must be stopped the instant the signal ending the game is sounded.
2. When a timing device other than a watch is the official timepiece, the timer must assist in determining the position of the ball when time expires.
3. Some timers, in order to avoid misunderstanding concerning the position of the ball when time expires, have one person watch the official timepiece & count aloud 10 - 9 - 8 - 7, etc., while another person watches the ball & notes its position at the exact moment time expires.
4. If a quarter or extra period ends &:
a. The timer has been unable to make an official hear the signal, the timer must immediately notify the official.
b. The timing signal fails or is not heard by an official, the timer must be prepared to advise the referee as to whether the ball was in flight when time expired, or whether a foul occurred before or after the period had ended.
c. The timing signal is not heard by the officials, testimony of the timer may determine whether a score shall count or a foul shall be charged, unless the referee has information which would alter the situation.

As long as the timer does it at the end of every period, I have no problem with it and in fact think they should do it (in the case where a clock is not reasonably visible to the players).