Hell of a game last night, feedback on a OOB call...

fiasco

Next time, as you said, blow your whistle only if your partner fails to, since it was his line, and then conference with him. If he has no clue, you really need to go with the AP unless you're absolutely certain who touched it last.

biggravy

I want to hit on what I see as the major issue here: Am I missing a major mechanics point? If ball goes oob table side in BC during fast break w/ me on the opposite side of the floor, how on earth is that my line? Is it really? I'm not being smart aleck, I seriously have never read that, heard that, or been taught that. If I am missing something please let me know!

It also brings up my biggest reason for never, ever doing two man again. I am in good enough shape to beat the kids down the floor in two man, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE having to run on the fast break and look back over my shoulder instead of looking where I am running. All our schools here V is 3 man. Except one cheapo school. I go there for a two man game and have this same fast break situation. I am table side ball coming up my line fast and under pressure keeping me right on the sideline instead of on the court. Next thing I know, I am looking at the ceiling. My knee collided with the forehead of a very stout two year old girl and I landed in an awkward pile on the floor. Game management in this place did nothing to keep fans from walking down that sideline in front of the benches. Somehow, we both wound up okay. It could have been a career ender for me. No more two man. O, and the ball went oob on my line. I think it went off of home, but not sure since I am now looking at the ceiling. I give it to V. Home coach goes nuts. I tell him keep your fans out of the way or don't talk to me about who's ball it is. 🙂

Rich

biggravy wrote
I want to hit on what I see as the major issue here: Am I missing a major mechanics point? If ball goes oob table side in BC during fast break w/ me on the opposite side of the floor, how on earth is that my line? Is it really? I'm not being smart aleck, I seriously have never read that, heard that, or been taught that. If I am missing something please let me know!

This is something Referee proposed (proposes?) as an alternate mechanic -- give the official the line based on whose primary it is. The argument is that, especially in the front court above the FT line extended, the lead is not even looking there (cause it's not their primary). Interesting, but I've pretty much dismissed that thinking -- how can a trail call a ball that slowly approaches the sideline and may or may not have touched OOB on the other side of the court?

Raymond

Berkut wrote
Had a great BJV game last night between two of the better programs in the area.

Anyway, had one situation that I would love to hear some feedback on.

2nd half, home team has the ball in the frontcourt, and it is stolen. I am lead, transitioning to trail, and am across the court from the table.

Ball is moving up the table side of the court, and I am hustling over to get there when it is knocked loose towards the table, but still in the back court. I clearly see the ball go off White's hands, then go behind a couple of players who are going after it (by behind, I mean from my perspective, ie the players screened my view).

Ball goes OOB near the scorers bench, home side of the court (backcourt), ie on my line. (Ball goes OOB, tableside sideline, in the backcourt)

Blow my whistle, stick my hand up, but while I saw the ball last touched by white, I could NOT tell if anyone touched it after that. I look at my partner, who was on that side (was tableside), but hustling up court to try to beat the fast break down, and hope he has something...but he isn't looking at me at all, so I am guessing he does not.

I point down court and say "Black ball!", and the place goes nuts. The coach for white, the players for white, the fans, everyone is screaming bloody murder, while black is cheering and high-fiving each other.

...

The Lead should have been looking back over his shoulder. Even if he didn't know who caused the ball to go OOB, he should have had a whistle then asked you for help. Personally I would not expect him to know who it went out on but I would expect him to have a whistle to stop play.

For ease of reading I suggest using different terms, like Team B/Team A, A1/B2, W2,B2 (for color) instead of home team/visiting team. Also the changes noted above in your quoted text. Just a suggestion.

CDurham

What would be the correct signal when going with the arrow? Would you just signal the direction in which the arrow is pointing or would you give an explanation?

The Jump-Ball signal would (to me) look ridiculous and incorrect in this scenerio

Thanks

jdw3018

CDurham wrote
What would be the correct signal when going with the arrow? Would you just signal the direction in which the arrow is pointing or would you give an explanation?

The Jump-Ball signal would (to me) look ridiculous and incorrect in this scenerio

Thanks

After confirming your partner(s) can't help, a quick two-thumbs up toward the table to let them and the coaches know you're going w/ A/P is appropriate. No need, IMO, to make a show out of it.

Bottom line, though, is that 99% of the time on an OOB call I'm going to make a call with the information I have available.

bob jenkins

CDurham wrote
What would be the correct signal when going with the arrow? Would you just signal the direction in which the arrow is pointing or would you give an explanation?

The Jump-Ball signal would (to me) look ridiculous and incorrect in this scenerio

Thanks

I think you're going to have to get used to looking (to you) ridiculous and incorrect.

CDurham

I was just thinking that since you wouldnt have a jump ball there was no need to give the signal.

jdw3018

CDurham wrote
I was just thinking that since you wouldnt have a jump ball there was no need to give the signal.

How else is the table and anyone else in the gym going to know you're going with an alternating possession throw-in?

Rich

CDurham wrote
I was just thinking that since you wouldnt have a jump ball there was no need to give the signal.

You mean like on just about every held ball?

IUgrad92

Berkut wrote
Thanks for all the pointers guys. It's these little tweaks that really make the difference between a good official and an excellent one. I think I am good, but I want to be excellent.

Appreciate the feedback.

Take-away: In the future, maybe don't even signal at all until I confer, that was I don't have to reverse anything, should I decide my initial view was

A) Wrong, give the ball to white, or
B) Still not sure, go to the arrow.

I agree that 2-person mechanics, each official always has 2 boundary lines. But if you guys do it differently for backcourt, so be it.

From your OP, if you knew beyond doubt the direction you would have signaled it immediately, I'm assuming. Since you hesitated and looked to your partner for help, you have limited yourself to 2 options. 1) He signals the direction and you move on, or 2) he signals to you that he's not sure, and at that point you would signal jump ball and go AP.

Once you look to your partner for help, I think it's in your best interest to NOT make the call because of the hesitation. Going AP is not the end of the world. Just tell the one coach that's still upset that it was one of those bang-bang plays that neither of you saw, and that you're not going to guess. The conversation should end there!

referee99

bob jenkins wrote
1) I think it's your partner's call (he has that line, even in the BC, even in transitions).

2) You can try reading the players before making a call.

I know you were looking away toward partner for help, but the players reactions can speak volumes.

BillyMac

RichMSN wrote
Give the official the line based on whose primary it is. The argument is that, especially in the front court above the FT line extended, the lead is not even looking there (cause it's not their primary). Interesting, but I've pretty much dismissed that thinking -- how can a trail call a ball that slowly approaches the sideline and may or may not have touched OOB on the other side of the court?

IAABO mechanics give this as an option.

mbyron

IUgrad92 wrote
I agree that 2-person mechanics, each official always has 2 boundary lines.

Trail has 3 lines. 😉

IUgrad92

mbyron wrote
Trail has 3 lines. 😉

Agreed, but I don't consider the division line a boundary line, which I specified. 🙄

fiasco

mbyron wrote
Trail has 3 lines. 😉

I had a partner once who did 3 lines before the game...does that count? 😀

Rich

fiasco wrote
I had a partner once who did 3 lines before the game...does that count? 😃

$3.50 buys a can of 5 Hour Energy. Cheaper than the lines.

fiasco

mbyron wrote
Trail has 3 lines. 😉

Actually, as trail you have two lines and as lead you have two lines. There shouldn't be a situation where you are actively covering three lines at once. If so, you got problems.

bob jenkins

fiasco wrote
Actually, as trail you have two lines and as lead you have two lines. There shouldn't be a situation where you are actively covering three lines at once. If so, you got problems.

Division line.

fiasco

bob jenkins wrote
Division line.

Yes, I realize this.

As lead, you have the endline and the sideline closest to you.

As trail, you have the division line and the sideline closest to you. (Technically speaking, you have the endline at the other end of the court, but by the time you get down there, for all intents and purposes, you are new lead.)

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