Hell of a game last night, feedback on a OOB call...
 

Had a great BJV game last night between two of the better programs in the area.

Anyway, had one situation that I would love to hear some feedback on.

2nd half, home team has the ball in the frontcourt, and it is stolen. I am lead, transitioning to trail, and am across the court from the table.

Ball is moving up the table side of the court, and I am hustling over to get there when it is knocked loose towards the table, but still in the back court. I clearly see the ball go off White's hands, then go behind a couple of players who are going after it (by behind, I mean from my perspective, ie the players screened my view).

Ball goes OOB near the scorers bench, home side of the court (backcourt), ie on my line.

Blow my whistle, stick my hand up, but while I saw the ball last touched by white, I could NOT tell if anyone touched it after that. I look at my partner, who was on that side, but hustling up court to try to beat the fast break down, and hope he has something...but he isn't looking at me at all, so I am guessing he does not.

I point down court and say "Black ball!", and the place goes nuts. The coach for white, the players for white, the fans, everyone is screaming bloody murder, while black is cheering and high-fiving each other.

Now, I am about 98% sure at this point that black must have touched that ball after white, just from the reaction of a ****load of people who all had a better look than I did. But I did not see black touch it.

I call my partner over, and as expected, he cannot help. We confer very briefly, then I signal BLACK ball, and we go on amidst the outraged groans from the home bench, the screaming of fans, and the cheering of the visitors. :P

It was fun.

Anyway, a couple of questions:

1. I definitely saw that ball go off white, but have no definite knowledge whether or not it was touched afterwards. Not having seen it touch anyone else, but also knowing that you didn't have a good look at what happened *after* white touched it, should I have considered going AP when it was clear my partner had no help, prior to my initial signal, when I was still holding my arm up and hoping for help?

2. Once I signaled black ball, and then realized from the rather overwhelming response that I had probably missed another touch, would anyone consider reversing this without their partner coming in an telling them he say it go off of black? I would guess not, as it opens up a can of worms, since we would be reversing a call based on the reaction of the players, rather than any actual knowledge we got it wrong. What about going AP at that point? Again, seems like that would be hard (impossible) to justify to the other coach once you make the call.

3. Any other pointers on how to handle this, beyond the obvious of "don't get screened"? Or is this just one of those things that happens now and again, and there isn't a lot you can do about it once it does happen?

If you don't know, go to the arrow. Don't guess.

Around here, in two man crews, your partner would have been responsible for that line. The lead has their sideline and the endline, while the trail just has their sideline. Your new lead probably has the best view on this play. If neither of you saw it, just go to the arrow. You have to make compromises in a two man crew, and this is one of them, IMO.

1) I think it's your partner's call (he has that line, even in the BC, even in transitions).

2) You can try reading the players before making a call.

You can only call what you see. Guessing...and second-guessing...is not an option. There's not much that you can do after you've already made the call. Get the ball back into play as soon as you can. The players will go back to playing and the coaches will go back to coaching(after maybe grumbling a bit)...and we don't really care what the fans do or think.

Doo-doo happens. There's not much else you could have done imo.

SOunds like you did change the call, am I correct?

Anyway, 3 person fixes this situation 95% of the time. That spot on the floor with 2 is SO TOUGH. Not a whole lot you can do but go with what you see, ask for partner's help, look for the kids' reaction before signaling.

Good Lord. He made the call with the info he had, you can't go to the arrow after the fact. How weak would that appear? You changed your call because of pressure from the coaches, or worse, the fans.

Nope, sorry, that is a typo - I signalled black ball.

I even re-read my post, damnit. Uggh.

But that is just it - I *did* know that white touched it before it went OOB - just don't know if it was touched *again* - judging from the reactions after I called the ball off white, it was...

I was not guessing, just making a decision based on (probably) incomplete information.

Even in the backcourt?

We tend to want to the lead to help out on this call, but the sidelines in backcourt are the trails. now I shall have to go and check the mechanics manual to see if maybe we are not doing that correctly.

I was a little dissapointed my partner could not help - I try to stress how important it is for the lead to be cognizant of this spot on the floor, but it was looking like a fast break transition, so I cannot really fault him for being focused on getting down to the baseline.

I wasn't at all trying to berate the guy, so your tone isn't necessary.

From what I gathered, he changed the call. My suggestion to go to the arrow would be in future cases (provided you don't know who touched it last).

Doh!

That would have been ugly - I don't even think he was looking back.

Good advice - I held my signal for a while, hoping for help, but I guess I did not really look at the players. Thanks for the pointer, I hope I remember it in the heat of the moment next time.

Sorry, that was an error in my post (which I have now edited). I did NOT change the call in fact.

At the time, I felt the only way I would change my call is if my partner was able to tell me he saw the ball go off of black. I guess I still feel that way.

OK, yes, sorry for my tone. If he hadn't seen anything and hadn't signaled yet, and his partner had no help, and he couldn't tell by the body language of the players... then go to the arrow.

Depends where you are.

When I work with my partners, we have our sidelines endline to endline.

In this situation, it would've been easier if the new L had either made a call or if he was unsure to stop the clock and ask for help. The extra time may not have made it easier for the new T to help, but that's a great chance to see if the players give the call away. Come together, talk, go with the players' reaction.

I was trained that the lead is responsible for his entire sideline, even in the backcourt. The Federation Official's Manual only states that the offical is responsible for the closest sideline and endline and does not differentiate beteween front and backcourt so it seems that the Fed agrees.

As I've been learning, this is tough to see in transition but the lead needs to be looking over his shoulder and watching the play. I've been conciously working on not putting my head down and running to my new position while transitioning to lead but it has been tough no doubt.

Keep in mind also that coaches and fans hoot and holler about a lot of things, but it doesn't make them right. Last week I had a coach grousing over a couple of out of bounds calls I made against his team when his dribbler would lose the ball and it would ricochet off their foot out of bounds. He could not comprehend how his dribbler could just lose the ball and it not be deflected by the other team. Not much you can do with that one.

Yes, good job, you are correct. Once you made the call, the call was made and a change without help from your partner would have been unfounded. You did it right. Like Jurassic said, everyone will get over it fairly quickly.

At least around here, yes, even in the backcourt the lead has that line. To make it easier, you have whichever side you are on for the entire length of the court, then the endline is also the lead's. OOB situations are just one of many compromises that you have to make in the 2 man system. Don't beat yourself up about it, you can't see through the players. :)

Like you said, a fast break often has the lead concentrating on beating the play. In fact, even with a 3 man crew, this type of play still needs the lead's help. If the new trail only sees the backs of the players, it's difficult to rule who caused the ball to go out of bounds. I always try to pre-game this with my partners.

No sweat. I think we all agree that, once the call was made, just inbound it and move on. If it's the only call you missed, you still had a heck of a game.

That's a problem - your partner's. He needs to look over his shoulder when running down the court.

This is one of the biggest reasons the new lead shouldn't just turn and run in transition; especially in 2-whistle.

It's also why I have a hard time letting go of that sideline when going from 2 to 3 whistle.

Thanks for all the pointers guys. It's these little tweaks that really make the difference between a good official and an excellent one. I think I am good, but I want to be excellent.

Appreciate the feedback.

Take-away: In the future, maybe don't even signal at all until I confer, that was I don't have to reverse anything, should I decide my initial view was

A) Wrong, give the ball to white, or
B) Still not sure, go to the arrow.

I’ve run into this as well, and like other have said when transitioning to the new lead don’t forsake all just to beat the fast break. In this situation where the ball is on your side line and you are lead, stay with the play a bit along the side line (10 feet in front of or so, while trying to maintain some sort of angle).

Not only will it help you with OOB, but fouling action as well. Of course, if the dribbler breaks free, then you have to really hustle to beat the break, or button hook if you can’t make it.

Next time, as you said, blow your whistle only if your partner fails to, since it was his line, and then conference with him. If he has no clue, you really need to go with the AP unless you're absolutely certain who touched it last.

I want to hit on what I see as the major issue here: Am I missing a major mechanics point? If ball goes oob table side in BC during fast break w/ me on the opposite side of the floor, how on earth is that my line? Is it really? I'm not being smart aleck, I seriously have never read that, heard that, or been taught that. If I am missing something please let me know!

It also brings up my biggest reason for never, ever doing two man again. I am in good enough shape to beat the kids down the floor in two man, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE having to run on the fast break and look back over my shoulder instead of looking where I am running. All our schools here V is 3 man. Except one cheapo school. I go there for a two man game and have this same fast break situation. I am table side ball coming up my line fast and under pressure keeping me right on the sideline instead of on the court. Next thing I know, I am looking at the ceiling. My knee collided with the forehead of a very stout two year old girl and I landed in an awkward pile on the floor. Game management in this place did nothing to keep fans from walking down that sideline in front of the benches. Somehow, we both wound up okay. It could have been a career ender for me. No more two man. O, and the ball went oob on my line. I think it went off of home, but not sure since I am now looking at the ceiling. I give it to V. Home coach goes nuts. I tell him keep your fans out of the way or don't talk to me about who's ball it is. :)

This is something Referee proposed (proposes?) as an alternate mechanic -- give the official the line based on whose primary it is. The argument is that, especially in the front court above the FT line extended, the lead is not even looking there (cause it's not their primary). Interesting, but I've pretty much dismissed that thinking -- how can a trail call a ball that slowly approaches the sideline and may or may not have touched OOB on the other side of the court?

The Lead should have been looking back over his shoulder. Even if he didn't know who caused the ball to go OOB, he should have had a whistle then asked you for help. Personally I would not expect him to know who it went out on but I would expect him to have a whistle to stop play.

For ease of reading I suggest using different terms, like Team B/Team A, A1/B2, W2,B2 (for color) instead of home team/visiting team. Also the changes noted above in your quoted text. Just a suggestion.

What would be the correct signal when going with the arrow? Would you just signal the direction in which the arrow is pointing or would you give an explanation?

The Jump-Ball signal would (to me) look ridiculous and incorrect in this scenerio

Thanks

After confirming your partner(s) can't help, a quick two-thumbs up toward the table to let them and the coaches know you're going w/ A/P is appropriate. No need, IMO, to make a show out of it.

Bottom line, though, is that 99% of the time on an OOB call I'm going to make a call with the information I have available.

I think you're going to have to get used to looking (to you) ridiculous and incorrect.

I was just thinking that since you wouldnt have a jump ball there was no need to give the signal.

How else is the table and anyone else in the gym going to know you're going with an alternating possession throw-in?

You mean like on just about every held ball?

I agree that 2-person mechanics, each official always has 2 boundary lines. But if you guys do it differently for backcourt, so be it.

From your OP, if you knew beyond doubt the direction you would have signaled it immediately, I'm assuming. Since you hesitated and looked to your partner for help, you have limited yourself to 2 options. 1) He signals the direction and you move on, or 2) he signals to you that he's not sure, and at that point you would signal jump ball and go AP.

Once you look to your partner for help, I think it's in your best interest to NOT make the call because of the hesitation. Going AP is not the end of the world. Just tell the one coach that's still upset that it was one of those bang-bang plays that neither of you saw, and that you're not going to guess. The conversation should end there!

Berkut, dont discount Bob's #2...
 

I know you were looking away toward partner for help, but the players reactions can speak volumes.

It Doesn't Work Well In Transition ...
 

IAABO mechanics give this as an option.

Trail has 3 lines. ;)

Agreed, but I don't consider the division line a boundary line, which I specified. :rolleyes:

I had a partner once who did 3 lines before the game...does that count? :D

$3.50 buys a can of 5 Hour Energy. Cheaper than the lines.

Actually, as trail you have two lines and as lead you have two lines. There shouldn't be a situation where you are actively covering three lines at once. If so, you got problems.

Division line.

Yes, I realize this.

As lead, you have the endline and the sideline closest to you.

As trail, you have the division line and the sideline closest to you. (Technically speaking, you have the endline at the other end of the court, but by the time you get down there, for all intents and purposes, you are new lead.)

Optional Option ???
 

You guys that are using NFHS mechanics are lucky. Two-person IAABO mechanics give officials a few options which must be pregamed. For example, the lead may have the sideline only up to the free throw line extended, so the trail has his own sideline and the opposite sideline from the free throw line extended all the way back to the backcourt endline, basically your primary coverage area. My personal opinion is that an out of bounds call should almost be instinctive, and should be called decisively, almost all the time. It's tough to go from a game with partner A on Tuesday night using boundary responsibilities similar to those used by the NFHS, and then use the new IAABO boundary responsibilities on Friday night with partner B. I wish IAABO would go with one, or the other, and forget the options.

The manual is also poorly written. It describes the new IAABO option, but doesn't bother to explain what to do if you choose not to use the option. Also, the new option doesn't work in transition, or during a press/press break situation.

Really? So if B1 deflects a pass into the backcourt and A1 retrieves it near the endline, the trail now becomes the new lead?

Or A1 gets trapped in the backcourt in corner by the division line and sideline and then throws a pass all the back to the endline to A2.

Appears to me that in both of those situations that the Trail needs to be paying attention to 3 lines.