If he would've gotten ejected during his post-technical tirade (like, IMO, he should've) would you still be as ecstatic?

You honestly think there were positive outcomes associated with the behavior shown in that video??? Wow...just, wow.

Everyone has seen/heard/been involved with coaches and teams who think they can get everyone "fired up" by getting a T. Have never bought that, and probably never will. Generally when a T is given to a coach for this type of behavior, the whining and complaining from players increases. If this coach can't find a better way to "fire up" his kids than making an a$$ out of himself and shoving kids around, then yes - an idiot he will be.

I wouldn't call giving up four free throws in a game with the result still in doubt to be smart coaching.

Honestly I do not know what you are, I did not ask. But based on what you are saying and want us to buy, is that this guy is a good guy but loses control when things do not go his way. If this was not a sporting event would his behavior ever be seen as acceptable? Of course not. If he did this in the classroom he would probably have been fired and the school would have been sued. But for some reason we excuse any behavior during a sporting event even if that sporting event is an extension of the educational process. And I do not care what kind of person he is off the court. All I know is what he saw. I think if he had murdered someone in a 30 second video we would not be talking about what a good person he was now. So why do we act like what he showed us was acceptable in this case? He is supposed to be the leader of young men, not acting like a child that lost his toy.

Peace

Reminds me of the Eustachy melt down against Michigan State a few years ago.

Oh I don't know, being down by 5 and giving up four shots sounds like a great strategy to me. :eek:

constable,
He used other unauthorized signals, as well. The one thing this video reinforces is that as officials we better try to do things the right way all the time -- otherwise, we end up watching ourselves on YouTube along with 1000s of our closest friends :rolleyes:

I'll just tag on to what most have concluded here.............I don't feel he's an idiot, he is an idiot. Nothing you can tell me about this man excuses the behavior he demonstrated on this video. Additionally, you mention that this modus operandi apparently doesn't bother him. That only solidifies his idiot stature.

It's all about him. Pitiful, and you buy into this nonsense.

Because, yeah, name-calling accomplishes SO much....:rolleyes:

Slow Motion video of the play preceeding the 2nd T
 

This situation happened in March of 2008 in the post season. Because he was ejected, he is forced to miss the next game, which would have been the first game of the 08-09 season. To get past this rule, the school scheduled a game with it's alumni and counted it as a game, which by state rules was/is legal. So in essence he didn't really sit out a game.

Oh well.

Soliloquy, or are you responding to a specific post?

Sad that the school bent over for this guy.

Boy, that's character for you.

Atta boy coach, teach the kids to circumvent the rules rather than take responsibilty for your actions. Gutless.

Yeah, he must be the Bobby Knight of MN hs basketball.

From this slo mo shot it looks like a clean block, I have nothing but a bad acting job by shooter. As always, from a grainy video, bad angle and 50 feet away.

Based on the angle and the quality of the video, I do not see anything different from what I saw originally. The officials on the game did not call a foul, as far as I am concerned I see nothing that makes this a foul in slow motion.

Peace

The block looks clean, but I'm not sure whether he was fould prior to landing by the defender who looks like he's moving towards him. It's hard to tell with this angle, but it looked horrible at full speed.

OK upon further review, it was only one T at the end of the game but I still don't call that smart. :)

Right, two free throws plus a likely possession.

This game was a playoff game at Concordia College in St Paul. In MN it is OK to wear the side panel shirt. I have this team on Friday night.

"I'll just tag on to what most have concluded here.............I don't feel he's an idiot, he is an idiot. Nothing you can tell me about this man excuses the behavior he demonstrated on this video. Additionally, you mention that this modus operandi apparently doesn't bother him. That only solidifies his idiot stature.

It's all about him. Pitiful, and you buy into this nonsense."

I can tell you, I do buy into the nonsense. And so does the rest of the students, prospective students, the administration, and most importantly - donors; which is what DeLaSalle owns its existence to. There is no question that in this instance, the coach went too far. His penalty was to be ejected out of the game and be suspended for the next (have no idea how that turned out). However, DeLaSalle basketball and sports is a HUGE deal to DeLaSalle students, and the surrounding community. It's proven when 1,000 people pile into to a see basketball game for a school that only has 500 students. This is one example of a coach going too far, but its an underlying expression of passion that everyone generally buys into.

This can't be compared to murder, or physical violence, or even the classroom. If we followed the logic of classroom expectations being transposed into school events, then we would all be raising our hand to talk? I get the point, but it's not black and white.

Obviously, we can argue about philosophical differences all day, but as I said; As an official,I enjoy games where I'm getting a little "action" from coaches. Its one (of many) indicators that I'm officiating a game where people care, want to do well. For me, its only frustrating when A) coaches pass blame game outcome on the officials B) they don't understand the rules C) the players really are mimicking the coach (which I penalize Immediately) D) There is anything that I feel might lead to, include, or suggest physical abuse.... ok this list could continue on, but you get the point.

I think the coach crossed part D on the first technical and should have been tossed right away. Otherwise, coaches can jump up and down, whine, yell, and cry to the moon all they want.

Yea, I've seen the side panel as the new standard. Although the "breezy" side panel jerseys may go away due to the frequent piling. The important part is ensuring that both officials match. I would touch base with your partner.

Which proves what we've been saying, a video now slowed down, brings us to another conclusion or at least me. I thought in original he may have been fouled coming back to floor but new video seems that defender is off to side.

Goodness, officials were right there, I trust them. There just isn't enough evidence to say for sure.

The only certainty from any speed, any angle is coach remains an idiot.

Like I said, the Bobby Knight of MN hs basketball. And apparently, the school is willing to bend over for him by scheduling a meaningless post season game to help him serve his suspension in a manner that suits him.

That sort of outburst was completely unprofessional. He may be good at coaching, but I'd no sooner want him coaching my son than Bobby Knight.

I went to a private, Catholic, all boys school probably similar to this school.

I can look back on all my coaches who I respect to this day and not once did they throw a childish tantrum as this 'coach' did. If you describe this as passion, I fear for the man's spouse! Just silly theatrics really, and in my area he'd be long gone as a coach.
I realize it's just a thirty second clip, but it's very clownish and would really get old to all involved.

Has he considered community theater?

Excellent point Snaqs, I have a young son who plays and certainly wouldn't want him 'leading' my kid.

JRut,
It is the same video clip. Apparently a student from the coach's school created the slower versions of the clip. I think it is EASIER to see the hand on the ball from behind (looks quite clean). It is also easier to see the contact from the front which happened just after the ball was hit by the other defender. I think the lead had a good view of the hand on the ball. He appeared to get so enamored with the clean block (yielding his signal), that he may have missed (I will accept your view that he may have "ignored") the contact by the second defender who got nothing but arm as the ball was already popped loose by the trailing defender.

As Snaqs said, it looked horrible at full speed....

The fact it was a playoff/tournament game would explain why a coach may be more hyped up than normal as their jobs can ride on successful runs in the tournament. Then again, their jobs can also ride on proper behavior all game long as well.

Duuuuhhhh!!!! Of course it is the same video but slowed down. :rolleyes:

I am also of the contention, contact is not a foul. It must put someone at an advantage or a disadvantage. You have a player falling to the ground because the ball is taken out of his hands, not because someone contacted him after the fact. I do not know anyone that would advocate this being a foul by any evaluator that I have come in contact with. Either the blocking action was a foul or it was not a foul. Nothing else was illegal here and not simple contact does not mean a foul was committed.

Peace

Imo the L didn't ignore anything. He correctly ruled the subsequent contact as being incidental during a loose ball. There was no advantage gained or lost by that contact that i could see. I agree completely with Jeff's take on the play.

The things this coach does in the video go so far beyond a "little action" that it makes your stance seem quite ridiculous.

I think that is more than likely. If the ball has already been stripped and is away, what possible advantage might be gained by the contact on the arm. Unless it is intentional/flagrant, I'm not calling it a foul.

Question for you. I think I know the answer based on your replies up to this point, but answer this, please.

A5 goes up for a shot in the lane. B5 goes up and cleanly blocks the shot with his hand and there is a minimal amount of body contact. Meanwhile, B4 has come over to help. He also jumps to block the shot and comes down on top of A5 knocking him down. Are you calling the foul on B4 for contact on the airborne shooter or are you ignoring the contact as simple non-advantageous contact since B5 had already blocked the shot prior to B4's contact?

I'm calling it based on the part I highlighted.

From the video, however, it's hazy enough you can't tell whether the second defender fouled the shooter, or whether he got knocked down by the momentum of the ball being stripped.

JR,
Just for the record, and you will be surprised to here this, but I don't think a foul should have been called on this play, either. but it sure is fun to argue. :)

I have also clearly moved the discussion away from the true issue. I did not come close to acting like that toward officials even when I was very young. I would NEVER come close to physical contact with players like that. His actions were far over the line, as everyone, well almost everyone, agrees.

I am also far too competitive to manage to pick up that second technical foul. With a three point deficit and still over 10 seconds remaining, I would have kept my mouth shut. A missed FT and I have any opportunity to tie it. Then again, I likely would have been ahead since I would not have earned the first T either.

I don't think many adults who actually have to answer to someone would act like this knucklehead acted. It's apparent from the resolution of this that he doesn't really answer to anyone.

He better knock him out. If a player is already falling, they are not going to get a foul from me (or any respectable official I know) just because there was some contact.

Peace

And I think that most officials who have been around for a while realize that there are technical fouls and there are technical fouls.

There's the run-of-the-mill "T"s that you give out in the course of a game to a coach that thinks that you just missed one....or a few. That's just another call....ho-hum....git 'er done and move on...and we both forget about it. And I don't have a problem with a coach testing me to see where my line is either....as long as the coach is smart enough to back off when he finds out. There is a proper way to lobby for your team and most experienced coaches know the procedure...and most experienced officials recognize that procedure.

But there is a few (emphasis on few) coaches that do try to gain an edge through intimidation. And they'll pick their spots also, which is why the coach in the video went after the young 'un on the other side. When I read nonsense from his sycophants like "his players feed off that energy" and "he can turn his anger off like a light bulb". then I know that particular coach is definitely in this category. That coach has made intimidation a large part of his coaching modus operandi. And I don't think that it makes him an idiot. I do think that it makes him a person who shouldn't be allowed to coach anybody outside the NBA, and especially not impressionable teenagers. It's wrong...and it's sad. And what is even sadder is that you have a school administration that not only lets this person get away with such unsporting behavior but also seems to encourage it. And what is truly sad is that his followers are quite willing to spread his gospel also. It's all in the quest for their Holy Grail--a win.

One bad official who doesn't know the rules or how to apply them doesn't mean that the great majority of us aren't dedicated to trying to do the best job that we possibly can when we step out on the court. And similarly, one person like this Thorson sureashell doesn't mean the the great majority of amateur coaches aren't trying their damndest to not only teach playing skills but to teach life skills. Iow, in regard to both coaches and officials, you have to judge each individual in each category individually.

JMO, Coach.

Agree fwiw in that particular situation that the coach detailed. You haveta protect the airborne shooter.

Well said.

I realize we are only in the second week of January, but the above is the post of the year. You are the leader in the clubhouse so far.

Thanks for the kind words.

JR,
Of your nearly 20,000 posts, this one is indeed one of your better posts. I could not agree more. As I was embarrassed by the actions of the coach from Texas last week, I was also embarrassed by the actions of a fellow coach in this video.

Officials and coaches can disagree whether a foul could/should have been called in the second video, but the reality is, the disagreement is over judgment. As a coach, we have to respect an official's judgment -- within reason.

We only saw about 20 or 30 seconds of a 32 minute game. Who knows what other calls preceded or followed the ones on the video. But, one of the first things I tell my parents during my parent meeting following the first practice each year concerns officials. I tell them to understand our level of play (HS or MS), understand the level of officials who will be doing our games, expect bad calls to go against us and bad calls to go for us.

But, the most important thing I tell them is that if you notice we have a bad official or bad officials during the first two or three minutes of a game, do yourself a favor, put a mint in your mouth and chew and chew and chew, but do NOT yell!!! Why? Well, if the average officials has been officiating for five years to be as bad as he is, why do you feel that if you correct him all game long, he will suddenly become a good official?

As I have mentioned before, I seldom said (or say) a whole lot to officials as I am busy doing my job. I will make points with officials from time to time and move back to coaching. I have found that my preseason discussion with parents tend to put officiating into perspective. I seldom have a parent give an official a problem.

When one of my parents does complain about an official, there is a very simple and well publicized three step process. The first time I hear it, they get a wave. The second time I hear it, they get a look. The third time I hear it, they get a free trip out of the gym (courtesy of the gym supervisor). I have never gotten to step three in 30+ years of coaching, but I have certainly gotten to step two.

Once again, excellent post.

'Sycophants' and 'modus operandi' in the same paragraph! Two gold stars for you, young man!

I am well aware of the unauthorized signals. That was my point in highlight the fact he gave the ejection "signal" which I personally have no issue with- it was calm and collected and not antagonizing as some of the guys in MLB do.

Had this coach last night, no problems at all.

Did he win?

Yes, they were up by 10 with 12 minutes to go then pulled away and won by 28. I ignored his comments and answered his questions, he kept himself under control.

I'm guessing it's easier to do when he wins. Just a guess.

I agree.