Official in stands yelling
 

Looking for some input here:

There is certified official who travels to games in our area and sits in the stands. I'm not sure if he actually officiates any games or if just has his certification. He is also a member of my association.

While he is at games, he loves to bark and scream at calls (or no calls) made by officials on the floor. He has spoke up in meetings about what he does. He also asks about situations he sees and asks for clarification at said association meetings.

Tonight, I'm working a JVG game and my partner and I both called a very good game. We had no complaints from coaches or players (other than small questions about calls---no problems) in what was a fairly sloppy game.

Now, the guy mentioned above so happens to be at this game. And I hear him roaring from the stands most of the game. At one point, he was screaming so loud I looked at the home teams coach and put my hand up (as to say enough coach.) Immediately as I did this I realized it wasn't him who had yelled. As I passed him next time down the floor I told him I realized after I put a hand up that it wasn't him. He said no big deal.

Now, my question is this.

Is this sort of behavior tolerable from a certified official in the stands who is so vocal? Isn't his screaming and complaining bad for those on the floor? (not doing any favors)

My gut feeling is next time I see him at an association meeting that I'll politely tell him, "Next time I see you at a game I'm working and you are being overly loud and critical of the officials I'll have you ejected from the building." Hell, maybe I'll just report him to the State office.

Thoughts...

Absolutely NOT!!!
 

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
If it is as you've described, report this guy to your association, your assignor, your state, whatever, that he may be dealt with.
If it is as you've described, this is not a problem of yours that you should feel compelled to deal with yourself.
Again, if it is as you've described, this man must be dealt with in the most strict way possible by those in authority.
Intolerable.
You can't be the only one who senses this, can you? What are you fellow officials saying?

IMO you would treat him like any other fan. If the actions would cause you to have game management deal with any other fan then I would treat this guy the same as that.

While I doubt your State office cares, your local association should. In my opinion, that type of behavior is not tolerable. Officials are held to a higher standard and should know how to act.

I think other officials just kind of blow him off, or officials who don't know who he is (outside the association) probably just ignore him.

I think those of us who know of him just sort of laugh it off. But I agree, officials are held to a higher standard and I just don't think this kind of behavior is acceptable.

Tonight was the first night I've officiated that he has been at a game.

What a Jerk!
 

Report him. Don't let him walk all over his "fellow officials." (if he even is one).

This guy is no official.

I think you should just take him out and shoot him. :mad:

Ya know, the more I read responses the more ticked off I get.

Good.

My State office cares. A few years ago there was a Football official who had refereed the State Final in early December. In late December he was overly vocal at a Basketball game when his child was playing. His behavior was reported to his association, the State got wind of it and stepped in and ordered a 1 year suspension.

Dang, +1.

Next time, have him removed. Just on principle. Stop the game and let everybody watch as he leaves.

Stripes,
I know an official from Central Ohio who was required to write a documented letter of apology to each of the officials in a similar situation. He refused. He was subsequently suspended until the letter was written.

This guy would not be around anymore (officiating) if he was in our association.

In all likelihood, he would be kicked out of our association for such behavior.

Cut his Bulls Off!
 

I had a situation that goes along with breaking the code of respecting the difficult job officials try to do. This happened 8 years ago, but I remember it very well. All the reffs in this situation were volunteering there time. This was a middle school tournament game and it was the final 7 seconds. It was a one point game at this point with blue leading. I whistled a block on the blue team which gave the red team two foul shots. Both shots were made, and red eventually won the game. My partner and I go into the reff room after the game and are shooting the breeze. In walks an official that had done a couple of games with me earlier that day already. He says to us, "man you guys really F*&%^$$ that game up." He then takes off his jersey, crosses his name off the next game that he was already signed up to officiate and stomps out of the room. Partner and I were in such shock that neither said a word until after he left. We found out later that his son was on the losing team. I'll guarantee you that he will never reff another game in that gym. He's been totally blackballed from our association.

My kind of state association. Good for them.

1. Constant shouting is not acceptable fan behavior. Have game management deal with such behavior whenever it occurs.
2. If you happen to know that the offender is also an official, contact the secretary or assignors of the local association and alert them to the behavior. Discipline within the ranks is part of their job. I personally would not go to directly to the OHSAA with this one.

While he is at games, he loves to bark and scream at calls (or no calls) made by officials on the floor. He has spoke up in meetings about what he does. He also asks about situations he sees and asks for clarification at said association meetings.

This to me is the saddest part, the Association already knows about this guy and he is still doing the same crappy things at games. If he spoke up in a meeting about a "situation" in one of my game I'm sure I would not be too civil in my response.

Make an example of this jack@ss... I ejected a fan last night, she tried to buffalo management by saying she was an official too and they let her back in. After a stern "talkin' too" by me, the administrator discovered the err of her ways and promptly escorted the fan out. I don't whether they are an official or not they have got to go. This is totally out of line, right or wrong, we hold officials to a higher standard than typical fans when they are watching a game. Give this guy the boot!

have him removed.

then you'll be the guy in your association with the guts to throw this bozo out of a game. I'm pretty sure your appreciation and respect within your association will go through the roof -- you'll be the guy that had the chutzpah to deal with this loser.

And you probably will not be the last. Someone has to be first.

Thanks for the input guys. We have an association meeting Wednesday and I plan on bringing it up with the secretary. If this guy isn't in attendance I may bring it up for group discussion.

That would be good even if he was there. He has embarrassed you.....

1. Absolutely bring it up at the meeting; you could perhaps ask whether it's acceptable in your association to behave like this clown. You might want to be diplomatic.
2. I'd dump him even faster than a known varsity coach pulling the same sh1t during a JV game.

Yeah, be diplomatic.....I have a "hypothetical situation" I was wondering how you guys would handle it.....

Exactly!

I absolutely would be diplomatic. I might even ignore him and ask it in a round-about way.

Such as:

"Say, I'm curious what opinions in this room are of other officials sitting in the stands and be overly vocal."

I don't know that I'd put him directly on the spot. I'll talk to the secretary and let him handle it. Or, I may personally walk up to the guy and just simply say that next time he's at a game I'm doing I'll eject him if he's riding me from the stands.

That is like baiting a coach telling him one more word and it is a T. It should come as a shock to him not as something he prepares for.

During the meeting After the meeting

So, had the association meeting last night.

Brought it up with the secretary and he laughed....third time this week he's heard from somebody about this guy. He brought it up in meeting and everybody knew who he was talking about.

This guy was NOT in attendance.

The secretary emphasized being respectful to the brethren of officials. He also said that any action we deemed necessary to correct it is acceptable.

Not the aggressive approach I wanted to hear but a good start. He said he would send an email out about respecting others and such. So we will see how it goes. But for me personally, it's zero tolerance. At least I do have the backing of my association secretary.

Thanks for the follow-up.

I'm sure you'll let us know if this saga has a Chapter 3! :)

Sounds like the race is ON! Who can toss this guy first?

Maybe you can put in an amendment to your bylaws such as "Any official who is a member of this association who is removed from a facility due to unsportsmanlike conduct shall pay a fine of $X for the first occurrence, $XX for the 2nd occurrence, and shall be removed from the association's membership list for the 3rd occurrence."

...can you see JR laughing at something like this?:mad:

I gotta think a better assignor would not make light of this.

He's not an assignor, just the secretary of the association. He wasn't laughing at the situation, just laughing I think that he had heard it a couple of times already this week.

In my association, it's posted as being an absolute no-no in our code of conduct and also in our bylaws. If you're caught crapping on a fellow official publicly, the first offense is an immediate indefinite suspension with no warning(length determined by executive). The second offense is Hasta La Vista and don't let the door hit your azz on the way out. And it doesn't matter whether the public criticism was valid or not either; you keep your problems in-house and deal with them.

An officials' association is no different than a crew out on the floor. One person can make the whole association/crew look bad. And if we can't turn our back on one of your own, then we all have major, major problems.

If I was in the position of having to deal with that type of conduct, it would have been dealt with the first time that I heard of it. I sureashell wouldn't wait until I'd heard about it 3 times and then decide to do something about it.

We all may be amateur officials but that doesn't mean that we can't act professionally.

I wouldn't say we are amateurs, we do take classes and hold permits. I think that makes us professional.

I agree, no 3 strikes. One time deal.

One thing they brought up at our meeting was officials who are parents. When they sit in the stands and a call is made, people in the crowd turn and look at the parent/official and ask questions.

Discussion ensued how to deal with that as well.

Well, get to work on proposing the amendment, then. If it is not already addressed in the bylaws. It may be something that goes to the Executive Board and then comes out for a vote by the membership. But, if there is nothing in the bylaws, it allows for "We can't do anything" as a response. If it is in the bylaws, then you follow the procedure outlined. [Which should also be provided along with the amendment.] Whether it is 1 time & yer out or something different is not material. Just make sure you get something done. Sounds like others would support it.

I don't think that central Ohio has a specific rule in any of our associations. At the same time, I do know that an official I know had to send a letter of apology to an official for criticizing him in public. This official CONTINUES to be critical of officials during his son's games. The only thing that saves him today is that FEW officials KNOW he is an official.

We had an incidence like this where an official from a local association was doing something like your incident at a game that was being officiated by referees in another association's location. His association was contacted and he was reprimanded by his associations ethics committee. He was required to send an apology to both officials and the coaches in attendance. He lost games for one week and was placed on probation for the coming season. Had he not complied with the apologies he would have lost his entire schedule and could not be a member at any state association.

You know, after reading some of your responses, I feel lucky. I first started officiating about 6 years ago and this was the same season my sister played on the varsity team as a Freshman. Anytime I was watching games I would be a screamer with my fellow fan-mates. The worse I got was just my fellow officials coming up to me (during meetings or at the bar) and saying "hey, knock it off".

I'm not a screamer anymore, and I still go to my sister's colleges games. If I see something that I disagree with, I keep my mouth shut. I also no longer sit by anyone who I know is a screamer, just so I won't get the influence to scream again. But I will say this much. Looking back, I would've deserved to write a letter, get suspended, or any of the other penalties that has been listed in these replies.

Stripes, if I was in your situation, I would definitely report it to your local association's president, and write a letter to your state's office.

At this stage, if you see it again at your game, have him removed and then send the appropriate communication to your association leadership.

I was the brother official when my sister played varsity high school. Same thing would happen, if an official made a call that the other players' relatives didn't agree on, all eyes were on my. Sometimes I'd explain it, sometimes I'd just shrug my shoulders.

This may not and probably isnt the same type of situation you had but, as an official with children playing ball on competative teams, I felt a responsibility to teach them the rules of the game. They helped me to study and review the rules and interpretations each season. To me this is not a bad plan. Now when they are playing they know the rules and when calls are incorrect or obvious (to them) and do not getting any whistles, they would look to me. Sometimes I would to direct them to continue playing like they have been taught and they will get the right calls.

Theres the hitch that comment can be construed as trying to show up the official. Right or wrong it was not intended that way.

To the Point
 

Finally cracking open my Feb. 2010 issue of Referee magazine, I was delighted to see an article on this exact topic on page 65. Could've been written by any of our well-respected, seasoned posters!