Coaches questioning table crew
 

Had several situations happen tonight where the visiting coaches were questioning the table crew.

Majority of the complaints was due to the shot clock.

For example: Girls' Varsity, Home shoots the ball with 1 sec. left on shot clock, air ball, visiting team had the rebound yet shot clock violation was going to be called if this was going to be a CE, however officials called it as a NCE due to play continuing. In this case, the visiting coach was trying to say a shot clock violation due to the air ball, however her team had the ball when the buzzer sounded before the reset happened. as her team had control off the rebound.

Can coaches question the officials concerning the shot clock, if the shot clock operator was unable to reset the shot clock due to interference from the coach yelling?

The coaches can and will question anything which they can during a game. It is matter of what the officials will allow. Personally, I don't permit the coaches to yell at the table crew. They are my teammates for that time, and I would treat it the same as if they were hollering at me or my partner.

Nevada,

Another question for you, & anyone else who wants to answer. Should &/or can the table crew during a dead ball, buzz the officials if they feel that the coach is hindering table operations?

I think that it would be best to wait for a dead ball at which the clock is also stopped, so don't do it after a made basket, and then get the attention of the officials.

If the table crew is being hassled by anyone, I would want to know about it, especially if they believe that it is negatively impacting their duties.

As far as I'm concerned anymore a dead ball is between intermissions, during time-outs, & after reporting a foul but b4 the free throws or throw-in (AKA Clock is not running).

This was the 1st time that I can remember that the visiting coaches were so vocal against the table crew.

That may be your defintion but it is not correct.

It is also dead on a made basket after the ball drops through the basket and stays dead until the throw-in team has the ball OOB for a throwin (or the official feels they should have had the ball OOB for a throwin).

It is also dead the moment the official blows the whistle for a foul (or until an airborne shooter lands)....not just after the foul is reported.

Not true.
Not correct, again.

Cameron,

My definition of a dead ball is from a timer's POV. How I see a dead ball situation is that no player has control of the ball for a throw-in or free throw attempt (after a foul, during a time-out, or intermission). If the clock is running, the ball is not dead, unless a running clock rule is in effect (as the clock only stops for time-outs or intermissions).

IOW, when the timer can buzz the officials to signal that a substitute is waiting at the table or when play is stopped.

I'm at a loss to see how the coach calling for a violation prevented the operator from resetting the clock.

Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.

Where's crowd control when you really need 'em?:rolleyes:

First of all, coaches yell all the time, what's new. Why would this prevent sc operator from resetting clock? These situations are getting really annoying.

found actual photo of your situation
 

Part of Chseagle table crew, shot clock operator

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4Tirx-M9Dz...s320/secretary

Not an invitation to debate...
 

Please check in your Funk & Wagnalls for reference to "rhetorical question"

chseagle,
While many coaches yell during games, there need to be limits to this yelling. They can yell at their players all they want. They can yell about a call every now and then -- as long as they let it go and move on to coaching, again. If the shot clock operator has made a few mistakes, coaches may react to that as well.

However, I do NOT want them yelling at the table personnel on an ongoing basis -- especially if they are out of their box. This can be particularly problematic when doing youth/MS games where the scorers and timers may be inexperienced, but I don't want it happening at HS games, either.

I will try to give you some examples of situations that would meet Nevadaref's suggestions in scorekeeper's terms. If you believe that a coach is being unreasonable, I would suggest sounding the horn IMMEDIATELY after a violation has stopped the clock OR when an official comes over to report a foul OR when the official comes over to report a time out OR between quarters OR any other time that an official's whistle will require a restart in which one of the officials puts the ball back into play (net gets hung up after a basket, etc.). You will not being stopping the flow of play during these intervals. At the same time, you will be able to get your point across.

While that's a problem (or two), I'm still at a loss to see how it prevented the shot clock operator from resetting the shot clock.

Also a problem. But, it leads to the possibility that the operator was not correctly performing his/her duties.

I'm still confused. Which happened first -- the "rebound" or the "horn?" And, if the shot clock operator was "in the process" of resetting it, then a yell from the coach should not prevent the button from being pressed and released.

Within reason - not while a shot is in the air for example - I would want to know immediately if a coach is hindering the table crew from doing their job. Scoring errors can occur and I don't want that to happen.

Let the Chseagle feeding frenzy continue. :D

Perhaps you should use the correct definitions and terminology...even as a timer. You're mixing two things....dead/live ball and running/stopped clock. All four combinations are possible. The proper time that a timer can buzz for subs when the ball is dead AND the clock is stopped. If either of those is not true, then no subs can be made.

The visiting team had control of the rebound, just as the buzzer was going off, about 1/10th of a second later. It was the visiting team that had team & player control at the time, yet it was the visitng coach yelling for the violation due to the air ball.

The other problem is that the shot clock buzzer wasn't heard by the officials due to the noise that the visiting team spectators & coach were making. Also apparently the volume level of the Shot Clock Buzzer is softer than it should be.

And you are confusing dead/live ball situations yourself as I pointed out in my previous post in this thread. You are mistaken about when the ball becomes dead in foul situations as well as the impact of an airborne shooter.

It aint easy being you ! :p Are bullhorns illegal ?

Well it would be a different sound than the buzzer used by the timer.

I was thinking of using the gong idea though for the shot clock.

I may have posted this before, and it's a little OT, but Missouri uses a starter's pistol to signal the end of periods in district and state playoff games when the gym is so loud and the horn can't be heard.

Holy Cow! (Phil Rizzuto)
 

This might work in Mo, but, in DC/NVA, this might lead to some bad situations.......

Remember The Baltimore Bullets ???
 

... like real bullets instead of blanks?

in some Arenas....

Many years ago I was part of a 4-man crew at a game in Fremont, OH. We'd send 4 guys out and I was one of the 2 JV guys. That was how we broke in new guys. We were watching the varsity game when the visiting coach went to the table and grabbed the scorer by his tie and pulled him across the table and chewed him out. It was one of the wildest things I've ever seen at a game. Apparently the scorer was bad-mouthing the visiting players as they reported to check in. The varsity guys T'd up the coach and the game went on. Obviously, things were a little tense after that incident.

When I was coaching, I had an incident where the home scorer (we were the visitors) did some talking to our players when they checked in. When I became aware of it, I told the scorer to knock it off. That ended it.

I think those who work at the table need to be reminded that they are officials and need to remain neutral.

Maybe He Moved ...
 

I thought chseagle worked in Connell, Washington; not Fremont, Ohio.

And I think he's worked games at the Sam Houston Institute of Technology. :D

Sounds like an assault to me. I agree it would be wrong for table personnel to make comments to the players, but even if they did it doesn't justify a physical assault. The coach is lucky he didn't leave the gym in handcuffs.

Here it would be considered gross unsportsmanlike conduct - flagrant T/immediate ejection of the visiting coach, report to the state and very likely the end of his HS coaching career.

I was keeping the book at an AAU tournament and the visitors scorer was all about cheering and booing. A foul was reported and I duly noted it, she thought the kid fouled out and the official came over to sort it out. I think my neutral stance went a long way toward the official going with my book. [I did not say anything to her although I sure wanted to. If you are going to keep the book, shut up about how Johnny is doing or who might be fouling him.]

This was over 30 years ago and I think things were a little bit more lax back then. Today, the coach would be gone, for possibly a career and the scorer would press charges.

In the NBA they use REAL pistols...in the lockerroom. Reason # 343 to not watch the NBA.

I've only done anything table crew & crowd control wise in Washington State for High School Basketball.

That school must get dumped on alot with jokes. :rolleyes:

I think I stopped counting at 2. ;)