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MelbRef Wed Dec 30, 2009 02:41pm

Violations/Fouls that you ignore
 
Just wondering what violations and fouls that we frequently ignore or overlook.

For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line.

I'm curious about situations where common sense overrides "the book".

Thoughts?

dsqrddgd909 Wed Dec 30, 2009 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 646995)
Just wondering what violations and fouls that we frequently ignore or overlook.

For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line.

I'm curious about situations where common sense overrides "the book".

Thoughts?

Why ignore it?

chseagle Wed Dec 30, 2009 02:48pm

How about a player going in for a layup when they're surrounded by 2-3 defensive players by traveling?

Raymond Wed Dec 30, 2009 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 647002)
How about a player going in for a layup when they're surrounded by 2-3 defensive players by traveling?

I know of no officials who purposely igore that.

just another ref Wed Dec 30, 2009 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 647002)
how about a player going in for a layup when they're surrounded by 2-3 defensive players by traveling?

huh?

chseagle Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 647006)
I know of no officials who purposely igore that.

I've seen it happen a couple of times, a player is going in for a layup or a very close shot to the basket, being guarded by 2-3 defenders closely, traveling.

Of course, in this case it may be hard to see the violation due to the amount of bodies in the area.

Raymond Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 647011)
I've seen it happen a couple of times, a player is going in for a layup or a very close shot to the basket, being guarded by 2-3 defenders closely, traveling.

Of course, in this case it may be hard to see the violation due to the amount of bodies in the area.

I think you are Off-topic here. You're talking about a judgement call and the officials judged it to be a legal play.

The OP is talking about obvious violations or fouls that get ignored for one reason or another.

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 646995)
For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line.

I'm curious about situations where common sense overrides "the book".

Common sense?

The FED direction on your example above is "Whether or not there was defensive pressure or whether or not stepping on the court was inadverent, it is a violation and NO judgment is required in making the call"

Iirc the NCAA issued a similar directive.

bbcof83 Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 646995)
Just wondering what violations and fouls that we frequently ignore or overlook.

For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line.

I'm curious about situations where common sense overrides "the book".

Thoughts?

Over the line = violation. Man up and call it.

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:22pm

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...violation.html

Similar discussion......

bbcof83 Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:25pm

But to answer your OP question.

I can't think of a situation where I'd ignore a violation.

Your wording is wrong. I will ignore contact in certain situations, I'm not ignoring a foul.

Examples: A1 starts a drive from top of key, B1 blocks but A1 is now past the defender and has an open layup. No advantage gained.

A1 is finishing a layup and is grazed on the arm by B1. If the ball goes in I ignore the contact. If it rolls out B1 gained an advantage from the contact.

Fast break situation starting in BC. A1 passes the ball to a streaking A2 who has an uncontested layup. B1 fouls A1 as he's passing. If the ball reaches A2 without affecting the play, no foul.

MelbRef Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:25pm

Given the response thus far, I doubt if there will be any further inputs to this thread.

Oh well.

bbcof83 Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 647030)
Given the response thus far, I doubt if there will be any further inputs to this thread.

Oh well.

What kind of response did you want? A list of violations to ignore?

Vinski Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:35pm

Iíll ignore sliding on a poorly maintained slipper floor.

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:38pm

Try this...

We don't overlook fouls. We do not call incidental contact a foul either.

That's common sense imo.

FrankHtown Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:40pm

"For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line."


Have I "missed" this violation? I'm sure I probably have.

Vinski Wed Dec 30, 2009 03:40pm

How about violations that appear to be ignored.

One that I see a lot, especially in college ball is travels on the spin move. A real common one is when a post player receives the feed and drops the inside foot to the basket and then turns to face the basket and plants both feet and jumps and shoots. This is absolutely a travel, but is rarely called.

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 30, 2009 04:07pm

The obvious one is three seconds. Another is the 10 second free throw violation. Also hitting the net while the ball is on its way through the basket. But these don't go completely unnoticed, and I will make the call if the situation actually warrants it. So not really ignored, just very leniently enforced ;)

As for fouls, those I don't ignore. However, the determination of advantage/disadvantage can vary widely between age levels, skill levels, or even from game to game or from one part of a game to another. I know that last phrase sounds like I'm promoting inconsistency, but sometimes an otherwise decent game begins to tank and you have to tighten up to keep it under control, or there are times where you have to go get a "game control foul" that you normally wouldn't call.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 30, 2009 04:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 646995)
Just wondering what violations and fouls that we frequently ignore or overlook.

I'm not sure I intentionally ignore any*, but I do tend to have a more lenient view, or change the benefit of the doubt, in certain circumstances.

For example, A1 inbounds to A2, with no pressure. A2 tunrs to face up court and in doing so lifts the pivot foot slightly before beginning the dribble. Probably not called. A2 makes the same move in drivingt from the top of the key to the basket -- probably called. :shrug:

* -- one notable exception. A team shows up with 6 players. 5 play the first 30-minutes, and the team is losing by about 45 points. A6 enters the game. The ball is passes to A6 on the wing. Her eyes get real wide and her feet start doing the "curly shuffle." I think this was the first time she had ever played. I ignored (there, I said it) the traveling violation.

bbcof83 Wed Dec 30, 2009 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 647049)
I'm not sure I intentionally ignore any*, but I do tend to have a more lenient view, or change the benefit of the doubt, in certain circumstances.

For example, A1 inbounds to A2, with no pressure. A2 tunrs to face up court and in doing so lifts the pivot foot slightly before beginning the dribble. Probably not called. A2 makes the same move in drivingt from the top of the key to the basket -- probably called. :shrug:

* -- one notable exception. A team shows up with 6 players. 5 play the first 30-minutes, and the team is losing by about 45 points. A6 enters the game. The ball is passes to A6 on the wing. Her eyes get real wide and her feet start doing the "curly shuffle." I think this was the first time she had ever played. I ignored (there, I said it) the traveling violation.

Say it ain't so!

OK, fine, yesterday we had a 40+ pt blowout in girls V. Everyone but A45 has played. With 1 min remaining A45 stands to go to the table to report (fans and players go nuts cheering her name). First opportunity to kill the clock I did (a rebound by B1, ball was live). Fans go crazy as A45 enters, girl had the biggest smile you'd see. Not ignoring a violation/foul, but more of a mechanic I guess.

APG Wed Dec 30, 2009 05:10pm

Punched ball violation in the backcourt. You know the play where the player inbounds the ball to the player with no backcourt pressure, then the inbounds player nonchalantly punches the ball back to the thrower.

As far as fouls, those aren't going to be ignored from me at any point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 647011)
I've seen it happen a couple of times, a player is going in for a layup or a very close shot to the basket, being guarded by 2-3 defenders closely, traveling.

I'd find in this case, if anything, a travel would be MORE likely to be called...especially if said player is out of control.

just another ref Wed Dec 30, 2009 05:16pm

I think we all ignore 3 seconds, to some degree, but I really don't understand why.

Adam Wed Dec 30, 2009 07:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 646995)
Just wondering what violations and fouls that we frequently ignore or overlook.

For example, after a made basket, I will frequently overlook an end line violation when the other team is quickly inbounding the ball (no defensive pressure) and their foot is slightly over the line.

I'm curious about situations where common sense overrides "the book".

Thoughts?

Thoughts? I called this in the first game of the year; no defensive pressure at all. Easy call, no grief. Incidentally, I probably wouldn't have gotten grief either way.

Adam Wed Dec 30, 2009 07:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinski (Post 647040)
How about violations that appear to be ignored.

One that I see a lot, especially in college ball is travels on the spin move. A real common one is when a post player receives the feed and drops the inside foot to the basket and then turns to face the basket and plants both feet and jumps and shoots. This is absolutely a travel, but is rarely called.

Ugh! It's called when I see it; and I've been gently reminded when I've missed it (by observing officials).

Adam Wed Dec 30, 2009 07:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 647072)
I think we all ignore 3 seconds, to some degree, but I really don't understand why.

Do you understand why you do it? I don't ignore it, I simply enforce it the way that's expected around here. Am I watching it more this year due to the POE? Perhaps, but it's not really happening more.

BillyMac Wed Dec 30, 2009 07:51pm

Love Those Stooges ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 647049)
Doing the "Curly Shuffle".

Yahoo! Video Detail for The Curly Shuffle by Jumpn The Saddle Band

BillyMac Wed Dec 30, 2009 07:54pm

How About A Nice Hawaiian Punch ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 647070)
Punched ball violation in the backcourt. You know the play where the player inbounds the ball to the player with no backcourt pressure, then the inbounds player nonchalantly punches the ball back to the thrower.

Called it a few years ago in a Christmas tournament game. My partner, and the two officials for the game following mine, advised me never to call it again, so I never will.

just another ref Wed Dec 30, 2009 08:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 647103)
Do you understand why you do it? I don't ignore it, I simply enforce it the way that's expected around here. Am I watching it more this year due to the POE? Perhaps, but it's not really happening more.

I basically try to call it like everybody else calls it.

But.......


Most of us don't call it if the guy in the high post has his heel on the line.

But why not?

It's a guy standing on a line.

Kinda like standing on the sideline while holding the ball.

Is it too much to ask to know where you are on the court?

Zoochy Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:39pm

How many time do we bend the rules on:
-Foot breaking the lane, on a free throw, before it hits the rim?
-Allowing the teams to stay in the huddle, for a TO, long after the horn signals the end for a 30/60 seconds TO? (Resumpion of Play Proceedure)
-Allowing the Team to clean up water that was spilled on the court from a TO? (Delay of Game Violation)
I know... When in Rome

Adam Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 647184)
How many time do we bend the rules on:
-Foot breaking the lane, on a free throw, before it hits the rim?
-Allowing the teams to stay in the huddle, for a TO, long after the horn signals the end for a 30/60 seconds TO? (Resumpion of Play Proceedure)
-Allowing the Team to clean up water that was spilled on the court from a TO? (Delay of Game Violation)
I know... When in Rome

None on all three. Around here, we call all of those by the book. I've found that on the TO's, getting in the huddle on the first horn works every time.

rwest Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:21am

How About....
 
7th Girls game. Home team up 30 points. Are you going to call every travel you see?

Rock Chalk Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:28am

A1 has inside position on B1..both go up for a rebound above A1's head. Both grab it come to the ground and A1 lowers the ball to his chest. B1 still has the ball but now it's contact. If B1 lets go and A1 goes on with the play with no issues, it's a play on...i don't explain it well, but I'm going to imagine that we have all had this play. The result looks like a foul on B1 but 9/10 times it's a play on in my book.

just another ref Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk (Post 647223)
A1 has inside position on B1..both go up for a rebound above A1's head. Both grab it come to the ground and A1 lowers the ball to his chest. B1 still has the ball but now it's contact. If B1 lets go and A1 goes on with the play with no issues, it's a play on...i don't explain it well, but I'm going to imagine that we have all had this play. The result looks like a foul on B1 but 9/10 times it's a play on in my book.

If B1 lets go, play on. If B1 doesn't let go, it could be a foul, but it sounds more like a held ball.

Nevadaref Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 647226)
If B1 lets go, play on. If B1 doesn't let go, it could be a foul, but it sounds more like a held ball.

I agree. That's the way that I call such.

Back In The Saddle Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:48am

Me too.

Adam Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:48am

+1

stosh Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:06pm

I ignore an opponent of the free throw shooter stepping into the lane early if the basket is made :D

I also ignore calling a "kicked ball" if it imediately goes out of bounds :D

Adam Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stosh (Post 647352)
I also ignore calling a "kicked ball" if it imediately goes out of bounds :D

I can think of two situations where you shouldn't do this. :)

Welpe Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 647359)
I can think of two situations where you shouldn't do this. :)

I can think of one, during an AP throw-in. What would be the other?

stosh Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 647359)
I can think of two situations where you shouldn't do this. :)


1.) If there is a shot clock
2.) If the ball goes out of bounds at a spot that gives the "kicker's" team an advantage.

wanja Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:38pm

Reality
 
The reality is that level of play and situation do play a role in ignoring violations. At the least skilled level of play with very young players it would be a disservice to the game and development of the players to call every violation. Consistency is important here but not a golden rule. For example, Team A is blowing out Team B and A1 who is far above the skill level of the other players travels on the way to a score. Tweet. Conversely, Team A is blowing out Team B and B1 who has not scored all season, touches the line on a free throw that goes in. No tweet.

At a higher level of play, I'm likely to ignore a violation in this situation. Team A is blowing out team B and the situation with players and fans is volatile. With the clock stopped and 1 second remaining, B1 slightly touches inbounds before releasing a throw in. No tweet.

Upward ref Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 647129)
Called it a few years ago in a Christmas tournament game. My partner, and the two officials for the game following mine, advised me never to call it again, so I never will.

My smart alecky side always makes me ask " what other rules should I ignore ,and why ? "

Upward ref Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 647359)
I can think of two situations where you shouldn't do this. :)

Do "kicked ball" calls always require determining if it was intentional or not ?

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stosh (Post 647352)
1) I ignore an opponent of the free throw shooter stepping into the lane early if the basket is made.

2) I also ignore calling a "kicked ball" if it imediately goes out of bounds.

1) That's not ignoring a violation because there was NO violation. What you're ignoring is the usage of the proper mechanic i.e. using the signal for a delayed lane violation followed by dropping the signal to show that there was no violation applicable when the FT was made. Not a good idea imo btw.

2) Why? :confused:

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward ref (Post 647373)
Do "kicked ball" calls always require determining if it was intentional or not ?

It is not a "kicked ball" violation if the kick isn't intentional.

Adam Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward ref (Post 647373)
Do "kicked ball" calls always require determining if it was intentional or not ?

Yes. In order to be a violation, it must be intentional.

Adam Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stosh (Post 647352)
I ignore an opponent of the free throw shooter stepping into the lane early if the basket is made :D

I also ignore calling a "kicked ball" if it imediately goes out of bounds :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 647359)
I can think of two situations where you shouldn't do this. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 647361)
I can think of one, during an AP throw-in. What would be the other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stosh (Post 647362)
1.) If there is a shot clock
2.) If the ball goes out of bounds at a spot that gives the "kicker's" team an advantage.

I don't really care about shot clocks, but I suppose that's a third situation. Welpe has one, during an AP throwin.

The other is when the throwing team has an endline throwin. If the first touch in bounds is a defensive kick, and the ensuing spot would be on the same endline, the throwing team gets an end line throwin rather than a spot throwin.

If you simply rule out of bounds on the defense, then you've simply got a spot throwin.

Mark Padgett Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:53pm

I ignore flagrant fouls that result in reconstructive surgery. They're just too much fun to observe when they happen. I don't want to discourage them. :p

j51969 Thu Dec 31, 2009 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 647030)
Given the response thus far, I doubt if there will be any further inputs to this thread.

Oh well.

So give your list of things you don't call.

BillyMac Thu Dec 31, 2009 07:02pm

Punch Ball ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward ref (Post 647371)
My smart alecky side always makes me ask "what other rules should I ignore ,and why ?"

The reason I was given was the intent and purpose of the rule. I guess that back when they had jump balls after every basket, some players would try to punch the ball to prevent their opponents from rebounding the ball. With players nearby, a punch was considered dangerous. Agree, but I wish I was told that twenty-nine years ago when I first learned the rules. We'll have to get Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. in here to confirm this nineteenth century interpretation


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