3 seconds....THREE SECONDS!!!
 

I'm always amused at the fans who don't understand the nuance of the rule. Like last night when the ball was being shot, rebounded, shot, rebounded....some joker is SCREAMING at the top of his lungs how we apparently can't count to 3. Girls assistant coach thinks the semicircle above the 3 point line is part of the lane. Another fan wants 3 seconds cause "she was in the lane six seconds" even though the ball was never even in the frontcourt for 3.

And in the game before ours (another varsity game in a holiday tournament), when I was sitting back and hearing the stuff from the crowd -- wow, I've never heard such stupidity. And not only are they wrong and stupid, they feel it's necessary, their right, and their duty to scream at the officials the entire game. I swear it wasn't this way just 10 years ago.

Back to 3 second violations -- And yet, I called another one last night. This, folks is FOUR for the season in a dozen games. Don't tell me I don't pay attention to the POEs. :D

I noticed the same thing watching the game ahead of mine at a Christmas tourney yesterday. 3 or 4 guys up in the stands spent the entire game SCREAMING things like you said (CHARGE!, in case you're wondering that was a charge, you're missing a good game ref, shuffling her feet is traveling ref!, etc)

Is it getting worse? How can we turn it around and start improving things?

I feel when the wife and I finally have kids and they start to play ball I'm going to have a real problem sitting anywhere near this lot... Do I educate them? Ignore them? Run away screaming? Yell back with directions on how to be a better fan/parent (know the rules!, it's about your kid not you, everyone would have more fun if you shut your mouth!, etc)?

Sit back and have a good laugh. Nothing else is a good option.

Last night was a pretty bad girls game. Most of the game consisted of players lowering their heads and trying to drive through 3 defenders and everyone (on the offense's side) wondering why we didn't call a foul. Go to the other end -- wash, rinse, repeat.

My favorite play was near halftime -- a 6'3" girl got a rebound and held the ball above and slightly behind her head and a player came from behind and simply took the ball away from her. And people wondered why there wasn't a foul. Duh. She simply had the ball taken from her.

Like I said, if you're in the stands have a nice smile/chuckle and if you're on the court.....well, do the same for the stuff that gets through the idiot filter.

Why do so many supposed adults, who have grown beyond those brain-damaged teenage years where we were all convinced that our friends knew everything and the adults knew nothing, why is it they so easily revert to that same mentality at sporting events?

And how is it that a complete stranger sitting two rows in front of mommy and daddy is afforded instant credibility and assumed to be vastly more knowledgeable and observant than the folks in stripes? We really need to figure that one out, and then teach those skills at camps!

I had a ball near the sideline last night. I'm right on the line (which is the hardest part of having to bounce between 2 and 3 person for me -- getting to the sideline as the lead official) and the ball had gone off of a home player's foot and was heading out. For some unknown reason, a visiting player reached down and tried to stop the ball and the ball squirted out of her hands and onto the sideline. I signal the violation, and some clown 8 rows up starts yelling:

"How can you miss that? That ball was already out! You're giving it to the wrong team!"

Later, we had a scramble, loose ball, players rolling around, ball's tied up, players roll over, and one ends up on top of the other. No foul, the ball was already tied up, etc. :

"She's got a knee in her back! That's a foul! You guys are terrible! Call something! Somebody's going to get hurt! Oh, the HUMANITY!"

OK, I made the last sentence up. I think.

I could go on and on and on and I tuned about 90% (I'd estimate) out completely. The parents are just complete and total idiots. I'm OK with that, but how about keeping their idiotic opinions to themselves?

Maybe NFHS should require a sign in flashing lights on the gym wall with the Lincoln quote: "It's better to remain silent and thought a fool than open one's mouth and remove all doubt.":D

Options That Are Working
 

Yep, same here at a holiday tourney doubleheader yesterday. The depth of ignorance fueled by sheer favoritism is sinking lower year by year.

Options I've been exercising for about three years now is working out quite well, with my alma mater gym (where I can't do games due to conflict of interest with son playing there also) as a testing laboratory:
1) Avoid sitting by ignorant/boistrous/stupid (IBS) people I know well. This includes a handful of relatives and close friends. When they ask at the concession stand why I sit by myself, away from the crowd, I unashamedly express to them how embarassing it is to sit by them. Have won over several relatives this way.
2) Intentionally sat by two chronic IBS's and, over the course of two years, have won them over to observing the game from the official's point of view. One of the two is even considering donning the stripes for an upcoming season.
3) Stand up annually at parents' pre-season meetings with the coach to express to other parents how ridiculous chronic one-sided, biased, favoritism-fueled complaining is, pleading the case for sportsmanship, explaining how young players begin to play to the whistle as a result of stuff that is shouted from the stands.
4) Make myself available to fans before, during, and after games to explain calls and rules from an official's point of view so as to enhance their understanding
This experiment may not be changing the world, but it is having somewhat an impact at at least one school. And it's working little by little.

And...sometimes I just sit back and laugh. :)

disregarding that advice myself right now ! all the high schools put out sportsmanship rules of behavior , booing, cursing, etc. seems like they should eject some of the biggest mouths a few times for the worst stuff. my son and i left the home team side last night and sat across the gym because imo they are notorious for their big mouth opinions, and really embarassing to be around . even though the team went all the way last year.

The ultimate combination: ignorance + bias + no self control + an entitlement complex.

I don't think it works to try to educate unless you know them personally. .......... last year watching a game prior to my daughter's. Official calls backcourt violation- player jumped from back court, caught pass from teammate in front court (still in air). This guys goes nuts ..... turns to me and says " can you believe that ; where are they getting theses guys, they are HORRIBLE ". He had been obnoxious the whole game so instead of just keeping my mouth shut I said (nicely) that these two officials are probably two of the best in the area and that they got the call right. He reallly didnt' like that and the conversation just went down hill....... got to the point where he was getting personal with me and we ended up having a few choice words. I walked away .............. tough to do and vowed NEVER to try and educate someone I don't know.

Last night BV, team A pressed most of the night. Team B had a lot of success breaking the press and scoring. There were a lot of near miss block attempts and I think A players must have slapped the backboard at least a half dozen times. Each time, the same very helpful voice was heard:

"That's a tech! He can't slap the backboard!"

Just today: team B steals the ball in their backcourt; B1 dribbles towards their frontcourt, but loses the ball just after having crossed the division line; A1 catches the ball and immediately passes it to A2 who was still in the paint; A2 is guarded by B2, so he passes the ball out to a teammate who shots and scores.

"Three seconds! He has been in the paint for a long time!" a person screams and repeats it many times.

Unfortunately he was not in the bleachers, but in front of a bench; yes, he was team B's coach. Even forgetting that the ball acquired frontcourt status only when A2 touched it, the entire play by team A was not more that a couple of seconds long. :)

The young officials I was assisting did not T the coach. :( They T'd him later. :)

Nice tourney (thirteen year old boys), good basketball, fairly good officiating by 16-18 year old officials (with instructors to assist them from the table, talking with them during time-outs). And there were interesting conversations with coaches about basketball officiating: many of them were eager to know from us what we are saying to the officials and to discuss calls in a friendly manner. Maybe sometimes first with a complaint, but usually understanding the explanations we instructors gave, even during play.

Ciao

The big question is why does society allow this type of behavior? If those people were to yell and act like that at any other location in our society it would be thought of as completely improper. All of a sudden they go to a youth sporting event and society no longer looks down on that type of behavior.

Some people who don't act like idiots the entire game sit right next to people who do, yet they do not think anything of it when the idiot screams for an hour straight. Why does society not look down upon this type of behavior?

Are you talking about Congress? :D

My personal favorite reply to this kind of a statement by a coach: "Coach, that wasn't three seconds even in dog years."

All of you have my permission to use it. I own the copyright. :p

four this season? I don't know if I've called any more than four in my high school career. It's rarely called around here, we just tell the players to get the hell out of there. If they don't after one or two warnings, or they receive the ball while we are warning them, then we call 3 seconds.

But I agree with you on the fans situation. A good one that a buddy of mine told me was that an old guy was complaining about 3 seconds (a fan). During a dead ball or time out, he went over and said "hey, we don't call that no more". haha I thought that was funny, and the guy didn't say a word after that.

Today in one of my games I could hear a fan, throughout the entire game, screaming for three seconds.

Problem was, 95% of the time, there was nobody in the lane. The other 5%, it was a defensive player. I hope he wasn't looking for defensive three seconds:cool:

We're expected to tell them to get out; but not to be afraid to call it if they don't. I don't remember if I called it last year, but I had one in my first game this year.

This was a game stopper that I was told early on to avoid so you tell them to clear the lane or get out. Only one coach ever told me to quit coaching his kids when I attempted to have his player move out of the lane. OK coach....next time down and a few more times in the game...3 seconds and we're going the other way.

© 2009, Mark Padgett
 

Not enough. We need your expressed written permission. A lawsuit waiting to happen.

Guys, I hate to take someone else's role here, but this is exactly why it's a POE this year. I talk early. I don't talk the whole game.

Of course, my four this year plus my maybe 2 last year plus zero in the previous three years means I've averaged about 1 a year. Not exactly a role model am I?

None today in my girls' game, but the home coach wanted one right after I called a 5 second (holding) violation. He said, "if you're going to call violations, you need to call ALL of them." :rolleyes:

I had a game with some lady constantly screaming about calls made or not made. I figured she wasn't a very good official, though, as she never hollered '3 seconds' a single time.

A fan at the tournament yesterday got escorted out of the gym when he stepped onto the court and held out his glasses for the official. He had been a PITA on Monday, too. Today, he had laryngitis.

Sorry, the word you're looking for in this context is the (somewhat archaic) adjective 'express'. :)

I believe Rob Zombie has referred to that as "ugly American."

My wife went to an all girls boarding school in the Northeast. Very minimal exposure to sports and particularily High School sports.

So her first exposure were people threatening her husband, calling me names, etc. To this day she is appalled at the behavior of "adults" in these venues. She also would like to know when did it become acceptable for adults to act like this in public ?

Once in a great while when I'm on my soapbox about officiating and this topic is brought up, I compare it to me going to someone's place of work and screaming over their shoulder about the mistakes they are allegedly making.

Does this quiet them down at future games? I highly doubt it but maybe it makes them think even just a little bit.

I am often tempted to go to the dollar store and buy a bunch of cheap party whistles (in ten packs for a birthday party), and then at an 11 year olds rec game hand them out to the parents as they come in and tell them that if they don't like a call, instead of complaining just blow the whistle!

I think they would quickly see why there are only 2 or 3 officials.

It's nice to dream...

Every time we blow our whistle, it's a "game stopper". Are you suggesting that we should never call anything? :confused:

More diplomatic than me, I see. :D

The phrase "game interrupter" or "game stopper" has morphed from its original intention (passing on contact that doesn't cause an advantage/disadvantage) to "don't call anything." I've even heard people say not to call traveling cause it's a game interrupter.

Of course it interrupts the game!

The higher the level you work, the fewer times you'll have 3-second violations. I went almost 3 years without one and I wasn't not calling them on purpose.

And we can work on preventing them, but at the varsity level, I gotta admit I don't spend much time talking people in and out of the lane -- if you don't get it by then, there's not much helping you. I will talk at post play early -- "Straight up!" -- that kind of thing, mainly to let them know I'm watching them off ball -- but 3-seconds? If it gets to the point I've called the violation, they should've known better.

I've been working on that 'diplomatic' thingy, Rich. Not sure that I've got the hang of it yet.:D

And we share the exact same thoughts on the dreaded "game interrupters". The concept wasn't bad, but the interpretation in a some cases leaves a lot to be desired. Originally it was just another way of saying incidental contact.

And I also agree on the 3-seconds call. It's just another call. Call it when you feel it's warranted..and if you feel it's not warranted, then don't call it. But if you do have to call it, it doesn't make you a failure as an official.

I call it more frequently...maybe once every 5-6 games. But if the kids are moving through and getting out when "asked" it doesn't really make sense to whistle it. If a kid just stands in there and makes no effort to move out or gains an advantage by receiving an entry pass for an easy 2, then it gets called.

I will add that my first year, that was my favorite 'gotcha' call.

Was tempted to offer my glasses to the opposition fans last night every time they hollered junk at the ref's. Since my 9 yr old was with me i didn't . He noticed them as well and referred to them as "rubes" ! My luck ,they would have given me the snappy comeback from the other forum : " Why take them ,they're not doing you any good ! " ;)

Express Written Consent ...
 

Sorry. I definitely should have known that, after hearing this thousands of times in my life.

"Any rebroadcast, retransmission, or account of this game, without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, is prohibited,"

MLB Won't Give Me Permission To Describe Game To Friend - The Consumerist

I'm pretty sure you know what I am talking about and that is not what I am suggesting. :confused:back at you.:D

What They Really Mean
 

Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "The team for which I am biased is behind and I'm vocalizing my frustration at you for their lack of skill and athleticism. I can't yell at the other team because they're better than the one I'm rooting for."
OR
Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "My team is ahead but I'm so insecure that I can't bear to just sit here and watch them gradually throw the game away so I'm blaming you--it sure can't be my son's team's fault so it must be yours."
Root Reason:
The basis for the word [B]fan[B] is and will always be the term fanatic. And, nowadays anyway, to be one thusly fanatical carries with it the prerequisite of bias and favoritism. We officials just happen to be the easiest ones onto whom to lay the misplaced blame. It's all part of living in a society that's invested the better part of four or five decades in the spirit of antiauthoritarianism.
At least that's my take on it. I understand it, therefore I've learned to put up with it by ignoring it.

IMO , its the " its all about me " syndrome most of the time.

JR was using some hyperbole to make a point. Every time we blow our whistles, it stops the game. Some refer to certain calls as "game interrupters" and others call them "game stoppers," and JR's point is "WTF makes one violation a game interrupter and another acceptable?"

It seems pretty arbitrary, to be honest; especially when I hear it applied to travels and palming and 3 seconds. You never see it applied to OOB calls, or 5 second counts. Why not? The game is stopped for just as long and for the same reason; to give the ball to the erstwhile defenders.

His main point, however, that you didn't address, is that the term originally applied to incidental contact that gets called a foul by the officials. Contact that may look illegal but in actuality creates no advantage, so it should be ignored. That's a game interrupter, IMO.

A "game interrupter" is any call made that the official using the term might happen to disagree with. :)

The only true game interrupters are bad calls.... a la calling a foul for incidental contact.....or in the case of 3-seconds, calling it strictly by rule instead of by standard practice. And note that even then standard practice may vary from area to area.

Why not just say "don't make bad calls"?

Muxbule, I wasn't questioning you per se. I was just questioning the general use of that particular term; it kinda turns my crank every time that I see it. Rich and Snaqs knew the point that I was trying to make and both gave a very good explanation of it imo.

You know people have terms for everything. I do not have a problem with the term. I only have problem when people call certain plays game interrupters just because you disagree with a call. But I have no problem calling 3 seconds either, but most of the time it is not there at least at the varsity level. Other levels the players usually just do not know yet how to get out of the lane.

Peace

True Dat!
 

Late last yr I called a 3-sec in a JV game. While my P and I were doing our post-game, a V official who watched our game asked me "Why do you need to bring that "junk" into the game?" Uhm, because it was there and blatant?!

Your point that 3-secs seldom happens at the V level is my experience too.

I actually like Jurassic's point. The fact that a term exists is not by itself a reason to continue using it. The term 'witch' exists, but I don't think we should start a new round of witch hunts. Same with racial and ethnic slurs.

The term 'game interrupter' is used by some officials to mask the claim that they think a type of call is bad (3 seconds, 5 seconds, whatever). Rather than discuss whether the particular call was in fact good, they use a slur.

Hadn't thought of it like that before. Thanks, Jurassic!

I had a close game a couple seasons ago where I was T and situated in front of the offensive team's coach. A1 tries to get by B1 with a few seconds left and is held by B1 and I blow the whistle for the foul. My partner after the game says did you yell at her to get her hands off? I was no more than 5 ft from the coach and no I did not yell. Why reward poor defense?

This is the same guy who when a player picked up her dribble in the lane and was trapped by 2 defenders and I called 3 seconds because no attempt was made to try a pass or shot. He asked "Did you yell at her to get out of the lane"? As my other partner had his jaw gaping, I asked him how she would get out without a double dribble or travel. Why penalize good defense?

Had a game the other night where the Visiting team would consistently lower their shoulder and SLAM into the defensive rebounder who had position in front of them...we had 4 quick fouls on them for this. Their Coach - as I am reporting the 4th to the table - says to me:

"Well, I see you guys down here don't know what boxing out is." (They were from the northern part of the state).

My reply: "Coach, slamming into someone and knocking them 5 feet across the key is NOT boxing out."

Coach: "But we teach them to do that!" :rolleyes:

Me: "Ok Coach. But we're gonna call it."

Coach: "But how am I supposed to get them to stop doing it now?"

At that point I just walked away...interestingly enough, they only did it maybe twice more the entire game.

Just let 'em do it five times each.