Counting
 

Is it a required mechanic to count 10-seconds and 5-seconds?

We don't visibly count for a 3-second violation.

yes

Do you mean 5 second closely guarded or 5 second inbound? Doesn't matter, you physically count both.

Newbies - do you do the same with both 10 second counts (backcourt and FT)?

A Different Jackson
 

Yes. Rule 2-7-9: "Silently and visibly counting seconds to administer . . . backcourt and closelely-guarded rules."

That's not germane to the original question. That must be a different Jackson. ;)

My mistake on the original post ... might have been confusing.

Is it required to visibly count on all 5 second and 10-second bc violations? We don't show a visible count for three seconds.

Is there a difference between silently and visibly?

Is silently counting in your head, but not showing the arm motion ok?

All counts are silent.

5 and 10 second counts are visible.

3 second counts are invisible.

I don't have my rule book with me, but this difference is spelled out. It might be in the mechanics book, I'm not sure.

My turn to ask a question.

Why do you ask?

There is a difference between silently and visibly.
You can count silently in your head on the 3 sec. lane violation with no arm motion.
All other counts need an arm or hand motion and must be silent.
Counting out loud on a throw-in would be a big advantage to the thrower-in.
In my early years, a player asked if I could count out loud and I agreed to. I did not put the whistle in my mouth when counting and (you guessed it) I had a foul on the throw-in. By the time I got the whistle in and blew it the ball had advanced down the floor. Had to explain what happened. Never again!

Is this supported anywhere in the rules? Or in the required mechanics of what we do.

Not trying to be difficult :) just wanting to see if this is written anywhere! Thanks!

You mean other than the 2-7-9 that was already mentioned in this thread?

Found One Citation
 

The faceless guy at the back of the book in picture #8 (at least in this book) illustrates the "visible count."

It's also in the officials' manual. Mine is the IAABO book, but it's #10 under "General Position and Coverage Responsibilities," page 18.

"All situations that involve counting, except the three second rule, require the official to display a visual count."

Thanks. Rough crowd here all of the time. Don't understand why everyone has to be such smart asses :)

Many of you are experts at what you do and if you did not know it, a lot of players, coaches and fans come to this site to read and learn.

They don't have rule books or official's manuals and most will never have or see anything like.

Happy Holidays!

It appears to me that Johnny Ringo is not an official. I think that it is great that he is trying to learn why we do what we do. The more fans that become familiar with the rules will mean less comments from the crowd.

I still have to ask. What makes you ask?

I'm Sure Mark Padgett Has Some Extra ...
 

As my Mom used to say, "Take a pill".

"Happy Golden Days Of Yore" ...
 

Today, with every game, from third grade on up, being taped, in some cases on a mom's cell phone, we all must show these visible counts at all times. No more, "Oh, I forgot to start my ten second count, I guess that I'll pick it up at, oh, three", or, "Gee, he's been closely guarded for a second or so, so I guess I'll pick up my count at, oh, let's see, two", like in the olden days, not that I ever did anything like that.

What makes anyone ask anything on this site? Looking for an answer or wanting to have a discussion. In my case, looking for an answer.

Thanks!

For those following along without the benefit of the books:

3 second count - Silent, not visible
5 second throw-in count - Silent, visible
5 second closely guarded - Silent, visible
10 second backcourt - Silent, visible
10 second free throw- Silent**, visible*

* Done using a much more subtle visual count, usually a wrist flick
** Sometimes done so silently the official who is counting can't even hear it. It's just as well, he has lot of other stuff to worry about ;)

I think this guy has a GREAT count mechanic! http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl.../the-count.jpg

Did you really ask that? Is there a difference between your ears and your eyes? Are you expecting a new Christmas carol, "Visible Night"? :cool:

Often times questions are posed here due to situations that have come up in games, or debates that have come up in bars, or discussions that have come up at local association meetings. Just as often, those situations/debates/discussions are as interesting to us as the question itself.

Has being taped on anyone's cell phone every really caused anybody a problem?

Yeah, but it had nothing to do with officiating! :eek:

You have a rule book. You've posted here for three years. You stated, "We don't visibly count for a 3-second violation." Are we now to assume that you are a fan and not an official?

Since we've always assumed you were an official, I don't think anyone is being a smartass when they want to know why you've taken a very basic aspect of officiating and not looked it up in the rule book or mechanics manual.

Then, when you're given the rule and quote, you asked for it again. We assumed you are an official. Are we now to make another assumption about you based on having to give you the appropriate reference twice? :)

No More "Picking Up" Counts For Me ...
 

Not that I ever engaged in such activity, but ...

I had a parent show me a cell phone video between periods of a scrimmage that showed me making the correct call on a last second shot that didn't beat the horn. It could have just as easily been an incorrect call, in a real game, and the parent could have just as easily given the video to the coach.

Now I would feel bad, but wouldn't be embarrassed, by such an incorrect call on a "bang bang" play like the one I described, but I would certainly be embarrassed if I made a crucial five second, or ten second call, and was later shown a video where I only made four, or nine, visible counts, where both the rulebook, and the manual, state that we are supposed to make such counts visible.

I wouldn't. The only way I can see that this could possibly be an issue would be on a closely guarded count. The others have a definite indication of when they should start, and if my visible count is a beat behind the count, I can't imagine that anybody would ever notice, and if they did, I can't see how they could make an argument out of it.

Harper Valley PTA ...
 

"Hey Mr. BillyMac. Remember when you were here last week, and you made that closely guarded count against us in the last two minutes, in the game that we lost by one point, that kept us from any chance of making the state tournament? Sure you remember. Well, Ms. Johnson, our point guard's mother, that's right, the good looking chick who always sits behind our bench, well, she showed me a video on her cell phone, I've looked at it several times, and it clearly shows you making only four visible counts, with you blowing that #@%* whistle in synch with the last count. Ain't you supposed to show all your counts? What's that? You're asking me why we hired you for another game after that #@%* call? Well, Ms. Johnson is also an influential member of the PTA, she's a single mom, thinks that you're quite handsome, and wants to meet you."

I always say when a person criticizes the mechanics, it's the same as saying "Good call." If they thought the call itself was bad, they would criticize that.
Tell Ms. Johnson that the violation was for being closely guarded for 5 seconds, not for 5 arm swings, and if she says that anybody was watching that closely at the time, and was put at a disadvantage by the visible count being a second behind the actual count, tell her politely that it didn't happen.

Mrs. Johnson you're a wearing your dresses way too high ..
 

... It's reported you've been drinking and a running round with men and goin' wild.

I'll be sure to tell her, on your behalf, Saturday night. It's our first date. I hope to discover what "goin' wild" means.

I would avoid the subject entirely if I were you. No, I get it. If you don't score, you're just looking for someplace else to put the blame.

Sound familiar?

Same Old, Same Old ...
 

It's always her, it's never me.

Exactly. Things come up for players, fans and coaches as well. And those people are looking for answers and discussions on that topic.

Happy Holidays!

Hey Billy,

Tell Ms. Johnson to keep the lens cap on, or completely off.

I've Gotta Stop Doing That, It's Just That I Get So Excited ...
 

The problem is, on the rare occasions when I do score, I make the three point "touchdown" signal and yell, "Three". For some reason, there's never another date after that.

Maybe you'd do better if you didn't commit so many offensive fouls while scoring. :D

Naw, it's the victory lap after that pisses 'em off.