T to Start the Game
 

First game of a JV/V doubleheader. We come onto the floor at 15 minutes and the home team is nowhere to be found. At 12 minutes they're still not on the floor so I go to the table to check the book. Rosters are listed for both teams but the home team has not designated their starters. Our association usually likes to have the clock stopped at this point in order to avoid the technical foul. However, no one is at the clock so it can't be stopped. I tell the home scorekeeper to quickly go find the coach.

Coach and team come strolling out and he finally marks the starters with 7 minutes remaining. I inform him that we will be starting the game with a technical. He tries to tell me the clock should not have started and its two minutes ahead of his watch. I inform him that we don't go by watches.

Two questions.

Would you have handled it any differently?

What is the procedure for starting the game with a T? I informed the official scorekeeper that we were starting the game with a T and to mark down a team foul and note the team technical. I then administered the free throws.

Do I need to make any sort of signal to indicate why we are starting with free throws?

Do you not know how to stop the clock? :confused:

Fair question. Lets say I did stop the clock and it still took 3 more minutes before the coach showed up?

Yes, I likely would have handled it differently.

That said, this is a team technical. 10-1-1.

Charged to the team, and counts toward the team-foul count.

2 free throws and ball at division line for throw-in. AP arrow is set towards the other team's basket when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower for throw-in.

I did all that you mentioned.

Tell me what you would have done differently? I'm not pleased with starting the game that way.

In my area, we are not terribly strict with pre-game administration during regular season games. We become strict during post season tournament. We get very little guidance on this from the State Association. I would have made adjusments to avoid the T but that can't be supported by rule.

IMO, no signal. Just inform coaches and table and do as you stated. Of course, set the AP when the ball is at disposal.

I would have got the starters when I verified the book with the coach.

If I would have went this route, I wouldn't make any signal. Just make sure everything is recorded correctly in the book, made sure the coaches knew what was going on - get the shooter(s), shoot the throws, and start the game.

Even if it was at the 7 minute mark?

In my area, yes. Your area may certainly be different and your local/state association or supervisor may want things exactly as you called it.

My area is different. It's certainly not uncommon for the scorer to be still putting in the names and numbers at the 12 minute mark. Good scorers in my area are hard to come by and I'm certainly grateful for any help we can get at the table. Therefore, for me, it's not a pressing issue as long as I can get them when I verify the book with the coach.

Verifying the book with the coach isn't universal practice. Here, we're a little relaxed on the book stuff for JV games. We don't make a practice of stopping the clock to ensure everything is good, we just don't worry about it. And in this case, not having the starters noted wouldn't have been noticed, honestly.

True, and I understand that.... check local listings.

We don't stop the clock here either. We walk over at 10:00 minute mark and look at official book. The info is in there, or it isn't. If the scorer is inputting info at that time we assume that they had the info before we came over at 10 minutes. Now, if we see coaches trying to make changes after that time it's a different story. Also - we are a bit relaxed if school shows up late due to weather or bus problem. Then we ask that the coach get the information to the scorer asap.

Well heck.....
I had the scorekeeper enter the starters into the book when they were getting ready for the opening tip. I had the game delayed for a moment or two untill the scorer was ready. No problem, no Technical foul. It was a subvarsity game. :)

Exactly. We'll check the book around 12, gives us time to get it added if it's not there yet. If the coach isn't out there yet, we'll head back across court and wait for both teams to warm up for a bit, grab the captains, and then send the R back to the table.

Again, check local listings.

It varies from area to area. Many times when doing a Jv/V double header we don't even have 10 minutes between games.

Playoffs- different situation all together. Penalize accordingly.

We do the captain's meeting at 12 and then the R heads to the table.

If the book isn't ready, I talk to the timer. If the timer isn't there, I'll grab the ball and take my traditional 3 pounds of air out of it. If the ball isn't there, I'll test the AP arrow. If the AP arrow isn't there (don't laugh -- I worked a juco game without one), I go back and tell my partner so we can have a bit of a laugh. I'll go back in a few minutes.

I take the rules seriously, but we simply do not have problems with this. 1 game in 25 might have the situation where the book isn't ready.

The advise that you have been given regarding 10.1.1 is correct. To avoid this situation, you could have sent a team rep to the locker room to either have the coach report to the scorer's table or to have the coach tell them who the designated starters were. If the official scorer was familiar with the home team, you could have asked him/her to indicate in the book who the starters were These are not perfect solutions, however they could have helped to prevent the "tech". May I ask why you would have a problem starting the game with the "tech"? It's just another rule. Consider, if you saw an obvious travel, block/charge ete, I'm sure that you would have no problem making that call. Treat this obvious administrative "tech" the same way. Once the coach has earned this tech, I'll guarantee that he won't let it happen again which will make it easier for you and/or any others who work his games in the future.

You're kidding, right?

T to the team... does that include an indirect to the coach and he sits the whole game?

Captains at 12? That's too early.

Out on floor by 15
book somewhere between 12 and 10
captains between 6 and 4
U goes over to table at 1 to collect ball and give to R (in games without intros and National Anthem)

No.

Says who?
Except for your comment "out on the floor by 15"; everything else falls under the heading "check your local listing". There is no absolute...it varies by area/state/board etc. You conduct your pre-game duties in the order and at the times, and in the manner that your local governing body or board has instructed you.

Nope. It's 2.5 minutes too late. ;)

jdw is right.

One of the best tables in the book is on page 71 (from the 2008-2009 rules book, we didn't get new ones this year... but that's a different thread) -- Technical-Foul Penalty Summary.

It will answer all your questions as to whether or not the technical foul is charged directly or indirectly to the head coach.

I always do catains at 12. too many teams go back into their lockerroom and then we get caught short for time pregame.

Maybe in your state, but not mine.

We have to be out at 20 minutes. Captains at 12, table after, meet coaches at 1:30, anthem, introductions, go.

How much time do you need?

I'm starting to do captains at 12:00 or 13:00 as well. It's not about how much time I need, it's about getting it out of the way while both teams are available. No team I've seen goes back in the locker room then. Besides, once I'm done the kids still have time to warm up. Which is what they want to be doing anyway.

Oh I get that, I was just responding to ignats statement about being short on time for the meeting.

I took his comment to mean that by the time you get both teams back out on the floor, including the HC who often doesn't come back out at the same time as the team, sometimes it's too late to get the meeting in. But perhaps Ignats' C/C meeting is just really really long? :D

You mean like this?

"We'll call you blue and you white. Play the black line all around. Keep your hands off and stop at the whistle. Make sure you get out of the lane as 3-seconds is a point of emphasis. Remember to have......."

and I can't remember the rest cause the captains and I have all fallen asleep by this point.

The point of doing captains at 12 is so I can be at the table by 11 to make sure the book is ready.

I'm sorry. I fell asleep partway through your second paragraph. Perhaps I should record one of these interminably long C/C speeches to help with my occasional insomnia :D

Last night one of the teams went back to the locker room before the 12:00 minute mark. I went to the table at 10:00 and official scorekeeper (neutral site) informs me the visiting team didn't mark its starters. No problem; ask coach to supply starters and he does so right away. Go back to my pre-game position. At around the 2:30 mark one of my partners reminds me we haven't done the captains yet. :eek: Sh!t, I had forgot all about that. Grab the captains real quick. Luckily my captains meetings only last about 20 seconds, including all the hand-shaking/fist pounding.

I rarely work with people other than my regulars (a group of 2-3) but when I do and the captain's meeting starts like that I know it's going to be a long night.

Wow, I need to get out more. No team I've ever officiated went back into the locker-room after coming out onto the court around 15 minutes to go. I've never seen that done in this area, only in college games have I seen it done. So I see why some may do captains at 12 minutes. Here, once teams are out on the court, they pretty much stay out there so we can do captains whenever.

Just about all the teams here go in. If both teams go in, we'll go in a side hall and stretch -- no reason to stand and observe an empty court.

I have a general rule of thumb...if I don't know how to administer something...I do not call it.

I would rather MISS something...than CALL something and get it wrong in the way I administered it or that it wasn't even supported by rule.

(Moral of story: Dive into the books and know how to administer what you call.)

Also...around here we pre-game:

15...12...10...2

Get on the court by 15,
Get captains at 12,
Check book before 10 (R goes right to table after captains meeting)
Meet coaches at 2:00 mark...visiting coach first.

Wehere I am from the coaches are required to be at the captains meeting. They verify players legally equipped at that point and hear the sportsmanship speech.

I think I administered it properly in regards to noting it in the book, noting the team foul, talking to both coaches. My question is that once its time to start the game, do I blow my whistle to indicate the T or do I simply get the shooter, shoot the shots, and then go to the throw-in?

No need to blow the whistle. Table knows, coaches know, just blow the whistle (to indicate the game is starting) and administer the free throws.

No need for that, either.

Really? I haven't looked it up, but why would a FT at the start of the game be different than a FT after a timeout or intermission? We're supposed to give a whistle there as well (though many of us don't).

Check local listings.