Over & Back?
 

Ball is being inbounded. Offensive player jumps from front court, catches ball, and lands completely in back court. Over & Back?

No. This is one of the "exceptions" to the BC rule.

No team control on an inbound.

Third time this type of situation was brought up this week haha. No, this is not a violation. No team control during throw-ins, jump balls. There is also no backcourt if the opposing team has team control.

Team control is not the reason this isn't a violation.

In this scenario, there is team control with frontcourt status when the ball is caught. But by exception it is allowed.

Also, to the OP, it doesn't matter if the player lands totally in the backcourt, or even if he comes down with a foot in the frontcourt then a foot in the backcourt. He is allowed to land normally.

True, but not relevant.

There is team control, and the ball is in the frontcourt as soon as the offensive player catches the ball. When the player lands in the backcourt, all the conditions for a BC violation have been met. Without the specific wording allowing this play (and the defensive player, and the jump ball), this would be a violation.

No, special provision for BC allows this on a throwin.

I Saw The Mythbusters Signal In The Sky ...
 

During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his or her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

Three? I only count two in your post, am I missing something?

1. Throw in
2. Jump ball
3. Defensive player making a steal.

Yet another example of why it would be so much simpler for the common man (spectators), uncommon man (coaches) to understand and simpler for the even more uncommon man (referees) to enforce if the NFHS instituted the rule that ALL THREE ELEMENTS (BOTH FEET and the BALL) MUST be in the front court BEFORE a back court violation can occur.

No need for the "exceptions" -- nor any need for the end of the exceptions, etc.

Your proposed "rule" wouldn't preclude the OP from being a backcourt violation. A1 has both feet in the frontcourt (albeit in the air, but he jumped from the frontcourt), caught the throw-in, making it in the frontcourt (particularly supposing that the throw-in was from a frontcourt sideline, or even endline). Team A now has team control, and the ball is in the frontcourt, both feet and the ball are in the frontcourt. Then A1 crosses the division line in midair and lands in the back court. This makes Team A the first team to touch the ball in the backcourt. If it is desired to not make this a backcourt violation, then there still needs to be a throw-in exception.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. My proposed rule says that the player must have ALL THREE POINTS in the front court BEFORE a backcourt violation can occur. The feet must be ON THE GROUND in the front court.

Thanks for clarifying. I suppose that makes sense.

So are you of the opinion that the following plays should not be violations?:

1-While Team A is advancing the ball from their backcourt, A1, in the backcourt, passes to A2, who jumps from the frontcourt, catches the ball and lands in the backcourt.

2-While Team A is advancing the ball from their backcourt, A1, in the backcourt, passes to A2 who is standing with 1 foot in the frontcourt and the other foot off the floor. A2 places his foot on the floor in the backcourt.

I'm just curious as to your thoughts and what you think is fair.

Also, it seems that a team is restricted by one of these two things while they are in team control: a) not being able to go back into the backcourt; or b) having a 10 second backcourt count. My opinion is that when you make a change to the backcourt rule (exceptions excluded because they don't involve team control), then you probably must make a corresponding change to the 10 second rule to enable the count to be continued. I think this might make for some very confusing verbiage, but I might be wrong.

It's just the definition of "ball location" that needs to be changed. The officials would just need to learn to "count" longer.

One problem with the proposed change, though, is that if A1 passes (from the BC) to A2 (in the FC), and A2 just holds the ball, the count would (or should) continue. Then if A2 passes back to A1 (still in the BC), that's a legal play.

I think the current definitions are fine. I'd just like to see the exceptions applied to everyone who first gains TC (treating the excpetions as "examples" and not as "inclusive list").

Or another: A1, in the backcourt, passes to A2, also in the backcourt. The pass is a bounce pass with spin (or a reach around pass) that bounces in the front court. How can the definition of "ball location" be changed to make it so that a ball that bounces in the frontcourt is not in the frontcourt?

1. Correct. Current rules, even though the ball never crossed the division line, a backcourt violation has been committed. I maintain that this was not the intent of the original "over and back" (term***) rule.

2. Correct.

These situations occur frequently during games -- especially when a team is running a trapping press of some kind. I maintain that these situations were never the intent of this rule. Just because the defense causes the attacking team to be in close proximity of the division line should not cause violations until the ball and the player is in the front court.

These situations are still difficult for the commoners (spectators) to grasp. Most coaches understand this rule as do most officials.

Of course, I still think that the "last touch first touch" back court violations are the worst in this group. Requiring PLAYER CONTROL in the front court to establish front court status would eliminate these calls. ZERO percent of commoners (spectators) understand this rule and virtually none of the uncommoners (coaches) understand it.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I make this call, I (or one of my partners) must explain the call to the offending team's coach. If it is NOT called, virtually NO COACH will complain (until the rule is changed, I still will).

A1 is dribbling in the front court near the division line with no defenders nearby. A1 dribbles ball off of his leg and the ball rolls away (interrupted dribble). Ball rolls into backcourt where A1 picks it up. No violation as there was no player control until A1 went into the backcourt and picked it up. :confused:

Cobra,
Assuming that A1 has both feet and the ball in the front court, if the ball rolls into the back court AND IS TOUCHED by Team A without the defender touching the ball, this would still be a backcourt violation since the ball was in player control in the front court and was not touched by the defense and WAS TOUCHED in the backcourt by A1.

The purposes of my changes for the backcourt violations are to eliminate the exceptions to the rules for throw-ins, the termination of those exceptions (ball being tipped), etc. ALONG WITH elimination of the last-touch-first-touch backcourt violation call.

I know many disagree with me on this, but I get back to the purpose of the division line -- to prevent a team from being able to hold the ball for a long period of time by using the entire court. It was NOT to prevent a team was retrieving a pass deflected by the defense.

The inconsistency in this rule grinds on me. If the defender just barely tips a pass causing the offensive player to misplay the pass into the backcourt, it is a violation if is it touched first by the offensive team. Yet, if the pass is nearly intercepted by the defender resulting in the ball going directly into the backcourt, the offense can retrieve the ball without penalty. It seems to me that in order to be consistent, any time the defense can cause the ball to go into the backcourt, it should be a violation if touched first by the offense.

All of this goes away if the rule stated that IF the ball is touched by the defense, the division line effectively disappears until the offensive team regains player control. If the ball would go into the backcourt, a new 10 count would start since the offensive team would still have team control.