How would you have called this
 

(2-man Fresh boys) 2nd half and ball is in V Teams frontcourt. I am lead opposite table, and the ball is about 6ft in front of me close to the three point line. Shot is taken and clearly blocked by defensive player. Whistle by my partner and play stops. It took a couple of seconds for me to realize he had called a foul on try and not off ball. A bit of an eruption follows as you can imagine. I go over to him and ask him if he feels good about that call. I told him that I saw the whole play and there was no foul. Forget that he was looking where he shouldn't be for a second. Realizing he messed up he asked what we could do since he had already reported the foul. My response: IW and the AP since there is no team control on once the shot is on it's way. Of course the arrow is going the other way. So now the V team is losing the foul and the ball. Given the level of play we went with clearing out the foul and POI. The coach was still pi$$ed, but atleast I didn't have to wack him. If he would have lost the foul and the ball I am sure that is what would have happend. Bring it on.. PS This was the first of two games (Soph was next with same two coaches). Oh! and at half time of the second game one of the grandparents had a stroke. I thought we were calling a good game up to that point, but I guess I was wrong. Ambulance came and grandpa was good fine.

I'd have let him stand on his call. He can explain to the coach why he called what he called if he'd like. If coach asks me, I'd tell him to ask him. I sure wouldn't have stopped the game to go talk to my partner.

At the half or after the game (depending on when this was called) we'd have had a pretty good talk about why he called it, why he was looking there in the first place, and how we can prevent that from happening in the future.

I'm confused. You gave the ball to the V team, against the arrow? Poor choice, IMO.

"Coach, there was no foul on the play. We have to go to the arrow on this one." Give him a little rope to vent (not a lot), and play on.

That said, I would have let him live with it. We all have plays we want back (had a couple last night), it's a learning experience.

I admit I pussed out. I should have let him eat it.

I probably would have let him eat it and talked about it at halftime or post-game. Since you went to him and changed a call you could possibly open the door for the coach wanting you to get together on every call now that you've done it once. But, you learned from it...

I am a little confused about the arrow too. Who had the arrow before the "foul"?

No you didn't. Since there was no team control, the POI was the arrow.

Eat It?
 

First of all you are a TEAM out there. You don't let your partner "eat it". It's not an IW, it's a call albeit a bad one but you let it stand. Report it, administer and move on. Halftime or after the game you talk about it and hopefully he learns from it. It's not a blarge call so there is nothing to discuss on the court. You need to sell it as a team and not let any discusiion about a call that just happened give the coaches any reason to question your abilities.

A card laid is a card played. Don't compound a bad judgement call trying to rectify it. You dug a deeper hole.

The arrow was going the other way. So he loses the shooting foul and the ball. I not saying what I did was correct. I know is wasn't. Either we correct the mistake and go with the arrow. Or I let him eat it. In hind site I should have went with letting him eat it.

Yes your right as usual..what I meant was we gave them the ball out of bounds. POI was the wrong verbage.

Curiously, what happened to the ball after the shot was blocked?

Eat it = let it stand... I'm certainly not implying "eating it" as in pointing out to everyone the call was incorrect and throwing him under the bus but letting it stand and moving on.

Whistle sounded right after he blocked and play stopped. One of the player grabbed the ball and gave it to me.

I would have let him eat it, but that all depends on how the other official is.

If I'm officiating with a rookie, and he makes a mistake, I simply just walk to him, tell him that he simply messed up, and then I'll go to the coaches and take the heat from them instead of the rookie.

If I'm officiating with an official that has been around for a while, and we get along, I'd talk with him.

Now if it's a stubborn, I'm-better-than-anyone kind of official, like who I was with last saturday for my buzzer shot before halftime situation, then I'd just let them eat it and walk away. If coaches ask me, I'll just simply say "Ask him/her, I didn't blow the whistle".

The only mistake was that you decided to go talk him out of his call. He called a foul. Your job is not to go talk him out of the foul. If you want to talk about what he saw, save it for the locker room.

I'm not sure I care for that approach on a call that is simply poor judgment.

This is awful. Talk about arrogant...

I just show a little compassion. I know when I was a rookie I've made the same mistakes that I'm seeing rookies do today. Don't you remember when you first started, how nervous you were about your first few days and such? Gotta be willing to help out as long as they want to be helped out.

1. You realize that by doing this, you've thrown your partner under the bus, right? You've just let the coach know he's a rookie and/or you don't trust him. Way to go, partner.

2. When my partners call a foul in front of me, I assume they saw something I didn't and let it go. If I disagree with the call, I'll talk to him later.

3. Good grief.

No you're not, you're tossing your partner under the bus and then backing it up over him a few times.

I do actually...that would've been back in mid November of this year. I certainly hope a partner doesn't do that to me on a play they've deemed I have applied bad judgment.

When I started umpiring baseball 13 years ago, none of the veterans ever did that to me when I did kick a call (and I did). I've never done that to a rookie, it doesn't help him learn. It only undermines him.

I understand you think you're doing the right thing, but I simply cannot agree that it is the proper way to handle a situation like this.

So what does the "representing stand for?" I highly doubt it's officiating the game of basketball. Many of your reponses are ridiculous and mirror someone who enjoys the authority. I see you as a young (and to me that would be under 35) male starved for the admiration of others.

Pulling out my best Deniro (which is bad), "You talking to me?"

No the Mr "Representing"

your partner just lost all credibility once you came and talked him out of the foul. Poor choice on your part. We have all made bad calls we want back, but if my partner ever came over like you did the ambulance would be for him after the game and not gramps..;)

As a combatives instructor and being able to bench over 300lbs.....I doubt it.:cool: He had already lost any creditbility when he made a fantom call 40+ FT away right in front of me. I still say I should have let it go. But getting it right wasn't as poor of a choice as you say in my book. The only thing I did wrong was pussing out and not using the AP. The last thing you should be worried about is me telling you something everyone else saw but you.

This kind of attitude ought to keep you working freshman games for a long time.

Really? How do you figure? I work when I am open. Everything from V down to 5th grade (I like officiating basketball). Apparently you can't read. I said I should have done nothing in retrospect. I asked him if he wanted help...I didn't make him do anything. It wasn't me who said that I would need and ambulance after the game. It was some other poster.

You said:

You should not question your partner's judgment during the game. You have a chip on your shoulder. Good luck.

I'm confused.

You seemed to come here wanting feedback. Now that it doesn't agree with what you wanted to hear, you don't want it.

It ought to, but from my experience it usually doesn't....

I never asked for anyone to agree with me. I believe I admitted I should have let it go. The only thing I questioned was someone saying I would need an ambulance after the game if I did that to them. Is that what you call positive feed back Bob? Or intimating that freshman games are all I will ever progress to. Or that crappy officials like me still slip through the cracks. Is that the high powered intellect you’re talking about Bob? There are a lot of really good officials on this site. Several of whom need to smell some of what there shoveling. At no point in this thread did I ever question anyone’s criticism. This was RE-DAM-DICULOUS:rolleyes:.

Actually, you've gone back and forth from admitting you should have let it go to defending what you did by saying you were being compassionate. Your intentions may have been kind, but the results were not.

Here's what the coach sees.
1. new official makes a call I don't like from a long way away.
2. I throw a fit.
3. His partner approaches him and they change the call, after it was reported.
4. Rather than follow the rules, the officials decide to give the ball to the other team to mitigate the anticipated negative reaction from the other coach.

Coach has learned a few lessons here.
1. Official #2 doesn't trust official #1.
2. Official #1 is new and unsure of himself.
3. Official #2 will bend the rules to please the coach.
4. Both of these guys can be "worked."

If I was either coach, I'd be working you all game long.

Your partner may have damaged his credibility with this call, but you signed off on it. As far as I'm concerned, you didn't throw him under the bus, you drove it.

If I screw up and make a call like that (it happens, unfortunately), I'll apologize to you before you get a chance to say anything. OTOH, if you pull a stunt like that on the court, I'm going to GIGDGO mode.

The ambulance comment was, obviously, a bit of overkill to drive home a point.

And FWIW, if the coach were to ask me about a call like this that my partner made, my answer will not include "I didn't blow the whistle." That's all but telling him, in subtle but understood language, that you didn't agree. I suppose that may depend on your tone when you said it, but that's how I'd take it.

Personally, I'd rather not work with a bus driver.

My sentiments exactly.

Mregor

Guess I should have read the whole thread before I replied to the OP. Wow, some real attitudes here and we're not even to Christmas break.