Scorers' Table Setup
 

Probably not the thing everyone thinks of, but how should the table be set up for games?

During the Varsity games at my alma mater the 2 scorebooks are on the end next to the home bench (V Scorebook then H Scorebook). The Scoreboard/Timer right next to them in the middle with the Shot Clock Operator next to V bench.

Am asking everyone's opinion as most setups I have seen have the scorebooks next to their benches with the scoreboard/timer & shot clock in the center.

Am just wondering what everyone's opinion is on this, as am thinking of possibly doing like Varsity does & moving the scorebooks together for JV & C-Squad games.

I don't care what end either scorebook is on. As long as the official book and scorer and timer are at the table, we're good to go. Visiting team's book can be there too, and often it's good practice to confirm fouls and the running score, but in the grand scheme, I don't care if they're at the table. As far as the shot clock, we don't use one in Texas, but I'd have the same attitude as that with the timer.

I prefer to have the V and H book sit together so they can double-check each other.

Anyone read 2-1-3?

The official scorer and official timer are recommended to be seated next to each other. There is no guidance on the placement of the unofficial members at the table.

Who cares where they sit? A recommendation is not a requirement. As long as there's a home book and a clock, let's play.

Personally, I care where they sit. I've seen several incidents that could have been avoided if they were co-located next to each other and not on either side of the clock operator.

I like to approach the table and look em both in the eye and ask if everything is ok and if their books agree? Works for me.

And if there is only one person keeping a scorebook for the game does the game always have an incident?

I happen to care where they sit. If at all possible, I want the official scorer next to the official timer. Then I want the visitor book next to the official scorer. In my opinion, it significantly decreases the chances of errors/discrepancies between the books.

I don't get worked up about it at sub-V games, but if I'm the R on V games I always ask them to do it this way. If nothing else, this request lets them know I'm serious about them doing a good job and expect them to communicate with each other throughout the game.

Always? No.

I have seen, meaning not necessarily in a game I've officiated, several occasions where "young" scorekeepers have disagreed in the number of points and fouls and created confusion and issues.

I was keeping the clock once for a JV game and had a very experienced scorebook person for H. Everytime something happened she would say it and repeat it out loud - "Foul, red, two - his first, team's third." "Timeout blue coach, their second, at 4:37." I found this really interesting and useful.

Sometimes having only one book is a good thing too. ;)

In a varsity game, have you ever noticed that the official scorer did not sit next to the official timer? Have you ever had to jump in there and move people around to make this happen?

As far as the visiting scorekeeper, if they want to sit closer to their bench and that happens to not be next to the home scorekeeper, that's fine with me.

My point was that only a single scorer is now required by the rules. You can't force there to be more than one. You also don't have any say in where these people sit. That is totally up to game management and the teams.

Therefore, accept that mistakes may happen and deal with them according to the rules. If something unfortunate happens to one of the teams because they either don't provide a scorer or don't have that person sit where he/she can compare records with the other scorer, then that is their fault. The game officials cannot worry about things beyond their control.

I understand only one scorer is required, but if they have two, so be it.

I don't "force" them to move - I say, "I would appreciate if you two would sit next to each other," and explain why.

I don't consider asking the two scorers to sit next to each other politely as being "beyond my control." We are all one team. I have never had anyone say no yet.

And yes, I do accept mistakes can and will happen.

The scorer almost always sits by the timer. But I prefer for the books to also sit next to each other and ask them to do so if the table setup allows it.

And before Nevada steps in and tells me I have no authority to make them do so, I understand that. But I ask them to and explain my reason. It's worked very well for me so far.

Okay, good for you. I just hope that you don't run into an upset AD who comes over and asks why you are asking the table personnel to move around instead of sitting in the place which he/she designated for each of them.

Back when it was my job, I used to also supply copies of "instructions for scorers" and "instructions for timers" in sheet protectors at the table. I had a simplified version of the instructions that I culled from the "full" versions....

And I'll be happy to explain to an upset AD that it's his decision, here are my reasons why I'd prefer the layout as requested, and go from there. I can handle adult conversations.

I find that administrators are normally appreciative of officials who want games to go as smoothly as possible.

Tableservice
 

Last Friday the home team had the timer in the middle, the visiting book next to him, then the official book at the end closest the home team. I didn't like it, but my R didn't particularly see a need to shift things around. Nothing came of it, though it seemed goofy to report fouls to a person at the end of the table instead of a person towards the middle.
I'd prefer the official book next to the timer, as the manual suggests. I'd also wish the official scorer would wear stripes. Easier to report to, and it would more fully visualize the fact that the scorer is a neutral entity.

And I prefer to stay out of issues that are not under my authority.

I have never had a scorer wearing stripes. I personally don't care where anyone sits; I'll find out who the official scorer is prior to the game anyway, so it all works out.

I actually quite often forget who the official scorer is while reporting. But I'm so loud and tall it hasn't be an issue yet, no matter with whom I'm making eye contact.

I never had a scorer wear stripes either, that is until this last Sat. I had the privilege of working my second DII game of the year and this particular table had the scorer wearing stripes, and it's probably no coincidence that it was the best table I've ever worked with.

For us that have never had a scorer wear stripes, we wouldn't think twice about it, but now that I've worked with it, I wish it was more than just a recommendation.

Our school has striped "pullovers" like the construction workers wear - but in the black and white stripes. I like being able to look across the court and know who is "official".

Trust, then Verify
 

One other beneficial thing about knowing to whom to report at the table is this. On the floor, communication between officials is essential. And much communication transpires by the visual cues we each give each other: the slight nod of the head, the discreet thumb-up, the brief hand to the chest confirming one has the last shot, squaring up on the play to show one is on-ball, the open hand to delay making the ball live, etc.
Does anyone else sense how such visual cues also seem to be important when communicating with the official scorer?
Knowing to whom to report offers the opportunity to verify that he/she "got it". Usually this verification occurs when, after receiving the information, the scorer looks down, turning his/her attention from receiving your communication to the book to record it. Other times it comes by a slight nod of the head.
When a quizzical look on the face of a scorer takes place after reporting a foul, for instance, that's when I know I better clarify what I'm trying to communicate so we get things right.
I had a scorer last Thursday who, while we would report a foul, always had his head down, recording the foul based on what he thought he saw on the floor rather than what we were reporting. Drove me crazy until I discreetly told him to wait until after we reported it.
About as crazy as when timers click the next team foul forward before we report it so that when we look up at the board to see if it'll be a one-and-one, we see the number of fouls resulting from the call we haven't yet reported. Many correctable error situations could be avoided if the timers wouldn't do that.

Scorers that don't look at me when I report fouls drive me absolutely NUTS. I hate it with a passion.

I had a scorer and timer in a JH game this fall that were absolutely AWFUL. Scorer wouldn't look at us when we were reporting, they were constantly talking, missing things. When we would remind them of things, they were condescending. We got the "Yeah....okay" a few times. They were just very flippant and rude the entire time. They were two female teachers from the school and didn't take it seriously at all.

Other than that day, the table crews we have are usually very good, especially for Varsity/JV nights. The one thing I notice is that most timers have no clue about the replacement interval for a DQ or injured player. I usually try to remind them before the game about when the horn should be buzzed.

Me too, atleast I haven't dove for a loose ball yet!

Stripes are nice...the scorers and timers wear stripes at our State Tournament games.

My only preference is that the scorer sit behind the big "X" on the floor. :cool:

Don't they get in the way when you're at Xavier? :cool: :p

For the past few years I've been doing scoreboard/timer & shot clock, I've had copies of "Instructions To & Duties of the Scorers" & Instructions To & Duties to the Timers", as well as the current copy of the WIAA Shot Clock Operation Instructions with me at all times.

The one big problem, however is when those doing books are high school students & the only person they'll listen to is the coach. Unfortunately at the same time, those same HS students doing book, have either a cell phone glued to their hand or friends sitting with them.

Generally at my alma mater, there is no specified setup asked for from the AD for the table, it's however the table sees it fit.

Copy of Instructions To & Duties of Scorers & Timers of Basketball Games:
http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867

Copy of the WIAA Shot Clock Operation Instructions:
http://wiaa.com/ConDocs/Con133/Shot%...Rules%20_2.pdf

At the sub-varsity level, you are lucky to get a conscious human being to do the book and the clock. You get what you get. I will not allow the official scorer/timer to be on the phone during my games. If I notice there are people distracting the scorer/timer, I will make the distractions leave the area. You do the best you can with what you are given. At the varsity level, the table crew is usually pretty good. You strike me as a little more fanatical about the job than normal.

When I ask about agreement on the score, I am asking about the official timer and official scorer. The scorer is usually on one side of the timer and the other book is usually on the other side. I am not a wedding planner. I am not making tent signs showing who is to sit where. As long as there is an 'X', an official timer with a working clock, an official scorer with both lineups and team rosters in the official book, I'm happy. This is a mountain out of a mole hill situation as I see it.

Unfortunately not all floors have the "X".

I started this topic as I was curious as to from a floor official's POV, how should the table be setup. It's common place for the Official scorer & timer to be side-by-side.

I am just trying to come up with the most optimized setup, so that both books will do their duties as they should. I'm getting a bit tired of having to police the books during the JV & C-sqaud games for inaccurate reporting due to inattentiveness.

I realize this is actually up to the coaches & game management, however in the lower level games the regulations are a bit laxed as to the scorer's duties & reponsibilities.

In NV the timer and scorer for all HS games are required to be adults.

I wish that was the case here in Washington, in some districts or leagues it might be that way, but I haven't seen that implemented in my area of the state.

For Varsity contests, generally the school(s) have personnel that do scorebook all the time. Unfortunately for JV & C-Squad, the case doesn't apply. The coach can just grab someone & say you're doing book whether or not they have experience.

Again, I apologize for not having the direct rules quotation in front of me, but it is my understanding that for any contest that those in the capacity of official scorer & timer must be adults, separated from high school a minimum of at least 2-3 years.

Then the game administration should be creating one with tape prior to the contest. It is a required floor marking in the rules no different than the FT line at each end of the court.

RULE 1, SECTION 17 “X” LOCATES SCORER
An “X” 12 inches long and 2 inches wide shall be placed on the floor out of
bounds directly in front of the official scorer to help substitutes with the proper location.

Odd as I had never seen the "X" in use at my alma mater & hadn't heard of if being mandatory until now.

Probably before your time. It was a rule change back in the 2001-02 season.

Comments on the 2001-02 rules revisions

"X" locates scorer (1-17): Rather than a recommendation, the rule now requires an "X" on the floor in front of the scorer. For 2001-02, when an "X" might not be possible to be painted, tape may be used. Home or game management is to ensure the "X" exists prior to competition.

I've been doing scoreboard/timer & shot clock since 2005, & I don't remember even an "X" being marked last year during 4A Regionals. When I was Boys' Basketball Manager from 1997-1999, I never saw any school having the marking.

Do you think it's possible that you just don't remember?

Do you think it's possible that you just didn't notice?

When I was Boys' Basketball Manager, I wasn't such a scrooge concerning the rules/regulations. So perhaps I might of seen the marking, but didn't think anything of it. When I was doing scorebook back then for C-Squad & JV, nothing really was explained to me except for what needed to be marked in the book.

When I did 4A Regionals last February, I did do floor checks between games, as well as floor sweeps.

How did you find where you were supposed to sit without the X? ;)

When I was Boys' Manager, I just sat right next to the bench when I was doing scorebook. For the 4A Regionals, the home book was the official book, so they just sat next to the home bench next to the official timer.

Put the scorer by the X (or at the center of the table). On one side have the timer, and then the shot-clock operator. On the other side have the other scorer.

If you have different roles, adjust accordingly.

If you can't get it that way, don't worry about it.

Which Fork Do I Use First ???
 

In case of your table setup, for the forks, you'd work from the outside in LMAO

Did Somebody Just Open Up A Tomb ???
 

I've got Egyptian hieroglyphics showing up on my monitor.

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/aa0025af1a7d6544

Don't get them wet.

FIBA Scorers' Table setup
 

I was just talking about how I've been trying to do scorers' table setups in earlier postings today. Come to find out from a 2008 FIBA Rules Book, that FIBA requires the scorers' table to be setup the way I have been doing it.

http://www.basketballmanitoba.ca/ind...d=37&Itemid=42

In the link above, the table diagram can be found on Page 5 of the document titled "02. FIBA Basketball Court Diagram (2008)"

For those that have the 2008 FIBA Rules Book, the diagram can be found on page 11.

All well and good, but I'm certain WA does not use FIBA rules.

LMAO Very true, I just happened across this tidbit while searching through basketball court markings (just for the fun of it).

It kind of caught me off guard when I first saw the table setup diagram.

I think you're missing your true calling by posing as a minor official.

I work with FIBA. That isn't a rule that is enforced.

Constable,

Could the table setup only be enforced during international games? Like I mentioned earlier, I just stumbled upon the FIBA Rules while searching for basketball court markings.

What's your thoughts of FIBA changing the lane from the trapezoid to the rectangle?

I'm not a fan of the trapezoid key simply because many gyms don't have it so we end up using the FED markings anyway lined up the way they would in a fed game, except only 3 defence allowed in.

I do like how you can enter on release.