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Adam Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:52pm

Those crazy Jump Ball rules
 
I've been sitting on this one for a while, but there's nothing like an IW to start the game.
JVB, jump ball, I'm U (two whistles only). R tosses the ball up, both jumpers miss on the first swipe and land before V1 taps it weakly. Ball bounces on the floor, and H1 grabs it.
I blow my whistle and immediately realize it's legal. Go with the IW and give H the ball and B the arrow. Doh!
V coach, "Isn't that a violation for catching it?"
Me, "No, it bounced first. It's legal."

BillyMac Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:09pm

Rules. No problem. Rule Changes. That's Another Story ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 643231)
"Isn't that a violation for catching it?"

Catholic middle school game this past weekend. Blue jumper taps ball, and then catches it with two hands before the ball hits any of the nonjumpers, or the floor. I'm the nontossing official and blow my whistle, and announce, "White ball". My partner is getting ready to administer the throwin at the table, when I decide to get together with him to have a quick "pow wow" to set the alternating possession arrow. Now I remember years ago that the violating team lost the ball, for the violation, and also lost the arrow, because the violating team did have a possession, even though it was illegal possession. But I thought that got changed a few years ago. We discussed it for more than a few seconds, and decided to give Blue the arrow, not because we were 100% sure of the rule, but because we thought it was the fair thing to do.

As I went back to my lead position I looked at the parents with a "confused" look on my face. One parent said to me, "Don't worry about it, nobody knows the rule anyway." To which I replied, "That's OK for you guys, but at least two people in this gym should know the rule, that's what we get paid for".

representing Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 643239)
Catholic middle school game this past weekend. Blue jumper taps ball, and then catches it with two hands before the ball hits any of the nonjumpers, or the floor. I'm the nontossing official and blow my whistle, and announce, "White ball". My partner is getting ready to administer the throwin at the table, when I decide to get together with him to have a quick "pow wow" to set the alternating possession arrow. Now I remember years ago that the violating team lost the ball, for the violation, and also lost the arrow, because the violating team did have a possession, even though it was illegal possession. But I thought that got changed a few years ago. We discussed it for more than a few seconds, and decided to give Blue the arrow, not because we were 100% sure of the rule, but because we thought it was the fair thing to do.

As I went back to my lead position I looked at the parents with a "confused" look on my face. One parent said to me, "Don't worry about it, nobody knows the rule anyway." To which I replied, "That's OK for you guys, but at least two people in this gym should know the rule, that's what we get paid for".

That was correct. In Rule 4.3.3(a) where it says:

Alternating-possession control is established and the initial directon of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when: ...the ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after: ...A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.

The violation would be to the next person to touch the ball and obtain possession. So, you give the ball to the other team for a throw-in, and set the arrow in the opposite direction from which way the team throwing the ball in is going.

Adam Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:25pm

Yep, and he's also correct that this is a relatively recent change.

grunewar Thu Dec 17, 2009 07:20am

A first for me last night....
 
JVB game - two man. I'm U. R tosses ball, good toss, A1 and B1 go up for it and flail around and nothing.......ball comes back to the floor. Me - TWEET! "Let's do it again."

I looked up at the clock - no time had come off. Kudos to the scoreboard gal! :)

cdoug Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 643356)
JVB game - two man. I'm U. R tosses ball, good toss, A1 and B1 go up for it and flail around and nothing.......ball comes back to the floor. Me - TWEET! "Let's do it again."

I looked up at the clock - no time had come off. Kudos to the scoreboard gal! :)

Kind of along the same line...was having a discussion the other night and wanted to make sure I got it right. For a jump ball to start the game the clock is started when the ball is touched by one of the jumpers - NOT one of the other 8 players on the floor, right? I think it's covered under 5-9-2. I guess I lose if that's not right.

Adam Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:48am

You win.

fullor30 Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 643231)
I've been sitting on this one for a while, but there's nothing like an IW to start the game.
JVB, jump ball, I'm U (two whistles only). R tosses the ball up, both jumpers miss on the first swipe and land before V1 taps it weakly. Ball bounces on the floor, and H1 grabs it.
I blow my whistle and immediately realize it's legal. Go with the IW and give H the ball and B the arrow. Doh!
V coach, "Isn't that a violation for catching it?"
Me, "No, it bounced first. It's legal."


Game with conference rivals a few years back. I'm tossing. Little scrum for possession. I wait for partners to get in place and take position as trail.

Tweet........back court as I give signal, direction, and spot, I confidently start running to lead. Nothing like that first whistle being clear cut. Problem was I saw some volleyball line that I thought was division line.:o Yikes!

j51969 Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 643422)
Game with conference rivals a few years back. I'm tossing. Little scrum for possession. I wait for partners to get in place and take position as trail.

Tweet........back court as I give signal, direction, and spot, I confidently start running to lead. Nothing like that first whistle being clear cut. Problem was I saw some volleyball line that I thought was division line.:o Yikes!

I have done that a few times in the past. Some of those small college gym's have lines everywhere! Odd thing no one said a word to us. Sometimes acting like your on it is good enough!

Back In The Saddle Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:20am

Poo happens. IW, put the ball back in play and nobody will even remember it. Except you. And your partner. Who will tease you mercilessly about it. ;)

Welpe Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:49am

Gee Snaqs, you trying to give Billy more ammunition for his Coin Toss Only Crusade ™? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 643422)
Tweet........back court as I give signal, direction, and spot, I confidently start running to lead. Nothing like that first whistle being clear cut. Problem was I saw some volleyball line that I thought was division line.:o Yikes!

I did something similar during a boys varsity scrimmage I was working. An offensive player rebounded the ball, dribbled down towards the endline and then stepped on a line. I hit the whistle, voice my call and give a confident point in the other direction, feeling quite proud of myself while my trainer and other trainees look on. Then I realized the "line" he stepped on was a long strip of blue painter's tape on the gym floor. The tape was very similar in color to the actual endline. :o

The color drained from my face as I had to explain we had an IW and I gave the ball back to the original team that had it for a throw in. Whoops.

MikeK27 Thu Dec 17, 2009 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 643446)
I did something similar during a boys varsity scrimmage I was working. An offensive player rebounded the ball, dribbled down towards the endline and then stepped on a line. I hit the whistle, voice my call and give a confident point in the other direction, feeling quite proud of myself while my trainer and other trainees look on. Then I realized the "line" he stepped on was a long strip of blue painter's tape on the gym floor. The tape was very similar in color to the actual endline. :o

The color drained from my face as I had to explain we had an IW and I gave the ball back to the original team that had it for a throw in. Whoops.

I officiated my first year last year and had this happen to me in my second game. I saw the player step on the line, blew the whistle, pointed and said red ball. Then I looked down to see the "line" was clearly not the endline. But, now in my second year, I always look at the floor marking really good before we start.

Adam Thu Dec 17, 2009 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 643427)
Poo happens. IW, put the ball back in play and nobody will even remember it. Except you. And your partner. Who will tease you mercilessly about it. ;)

when we were talking about it afterwards, one of the varsity guys (who didn't actually see it) suggested I could have called a re-jump. :eek: :rolleyes:

grunewar Thu Dec 17, 2009 02:44pm

Absotively Posolutely!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 643422)
Game with conference rivals a few years back. I'm tossing. Little scrum for possession. I wait for partners to get in place and take position as trail.

Tweet........back court as I give signal, direction, and spot, I confidently start running to lead. Nothing like that first whistle being clear cut. Problem was I saw some volleyball line that I thought was division line.:o Yikes!

Earlier this yr, Me - TWEET! "Backcourt."

Coach - :eek: "I thought we were playing the blue lines?"

Me - :o DUH!?

representing Thu Dec 17, 2009 02:54pm

Here's a jump ball situation I had. On Tuesday, I'm doing Girls JV. I toss the ball up, and keep myself still. Home team jumper, on her way up, hits me by accident and I'm thinking "I may have affected her enough that the other team got the ball" and the visitors did get first possession. I didn't blow the whistle to stop play, because I'm thinking "ok, jumpers had their position, I got into position to toss the ball and kept my position until jumpers went up. It's her fault for the contact between us, not me". Was I correct?


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