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-   -   Elbow Pad (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55956-elbow-pad.html)

BillyMac Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:19pm
Just Let Me Take A Little Peak Under There...
 
Here in my little corner of the Provisions State, if a player is in the warmup line wearing tape on an earlobe, we have been told to ask the player if there is a earring under the tape. If he, or she, replies, "Yes", then we are to inform them that they will not be allowed to play or warmup, with earrings. On the other hand, if the player replies, "No", then we have been told to end the discussion right then and there, and he, or she, continues to warmup, and plays in the game.

Adam Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643238)
You're partially right. While it should be assumed that it is for medical purposes, that's the only reason for it to be legal. BUT, if it is used for adornment, then it is illegal. Those arm sleeves are popular on the market ever since Allen Iverson has started wearing one when he was first with the Sixers.
You say he's partially right. Where was he wrong?
Jrut makes a good point. The rule says it must be worn for medical reasons, not that it must be prescribed by a doctor. What if the kid has a 2nd degree burn on his arm? He won't see a doctor, but the trainer might have the sleeves around that will protect it.
What if he just got a tattoo and needs to protect it from his sweat? Again, the compression sleeve works well to prevent infection here. I take Nyquil for medical reasons but it's never been prescribed to me.

Nothing says it has to be a prescribed device.

JRutledge Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643238)
You're partially right. While it should be assumed that it is for medical purposes, that's the only reason for it to be legal. BUT, if it is used for adornment, then it is illegal. Those arm sleeves are popular on the market ever since Allen Iverson has started wearing one when he was first with the Sixers.
Once again, you are reading too much into the rule. These are legal unless they are not used for medical purposes. The rule says they are used for medical purposes. Your state might want further confirmation of that, but it is not stated in the actual rule what that confirmation should or should not be. My state we do not have to ask. And that was made clear to us last year when the rule was clarified. Your state has the right to require some level of confirmation and based on what I have read that applies. But if a school from your state comes to my state for a tournament or shootout, I am not asking for a note, nor care to see one. The fact they are wearing it is enough for me as the rule is currently written.


Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643238)
Ok, I'm not so sure about elbow pads anymore. I don't think "pads" fit under "guards, casts, braces and compression sleeves" under rule 3.5.2. However, it doesn't say anything about whether pads are legal or not. So, I I couldn't tell you whether they are legal or not. For now, I will take your word until I talk with the chapter rules interpreter at our next meeting.
Here is a general standard you should use. Unless there is a rule that makes it illegal, it is legal. So if a pad is made for the elbow and worn on the elbow, it is legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643238)
But like it was said earlier, elbow pads are very rare, I don't think I've seen an elbow pad in the 6 years I've been officiating. I have seen knee pads, but only in youth leagues on floors that are old, wooden and hard, and will cause floor burns on your body when sliding.
I agree they are rare. But something rarely seen does not make it illegal. ;)

Peace

BillyMac Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:25pm
You Who ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643242)
One other time that it is listed in the book that you need a physician's note is under Rule 3.4.3 EXCEPTION.
Who's you? By NFHS rule, the state association needs the doctor's note, not the official. And nowhere does the NFHS say that the note must be kept by the player, coach, or trainer, although, if I were coaching again, as a precaution, I would have a copy available in my first aid kit for officials that didn't understand the NFHS rule and wanted to see such a note.

representing Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 643247)
Once again, you are reading too much into the rule. These are legal unless they are not used for medical purposes. The rule says they are used for medical purposes. Your state might want further confirmation of that, but it is not stated in the actual rule what that confirmation should or should not be. My state we do not have to ask. And that was made clear to us last year when the rule was clarified. Your state has the right to require some level of confirmation and based on what I have read that applies. But if a school from your state comes to my state for a tournament or shootout, I am not asking for a note, nor care to see one. The fact they are wearing it is enough for me as the rule is currently written.




Here is a general standard you should use. Unless there is a rule that makes it illegal, it is legal. So if a pad is made for the elbow and worn on the elbow, it is legal.



I agree they are rare. But something rarely seen does not make it illegal. ;)

Peace
JRut, I'm going to apologize. I realized you are right here, with the examples you've given (fire burn, tattoo, etc). I do remember, though, that it was discussed a year or two ago that a doctor's note is/was needed for certain article of player equipment.

So, again, I apologize, you are right here (I think).

EDIT: Snaq gave those examples, not JRut. I apologize to both of you.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643254)
JRut, I'm going to apologize. I realized you are right here, with the examples you've given (fire burn, tattoo, etc). I do remember, though, that it was discussed a year or two ago that a doctor's note is/was needed for certain article of player equipment.
It might have been needed in PA (and in some other states), but it's not needed in IL (and in some other states).

As you spend more time here, you'll realize that how you (or any of us) do things is not how all of us do things. And, all of us can be "right".

JRutledge Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643254)
JRut, I'm going to apologize. I realized you are right here, with the examples you've given (fire burn, tattoo, etc). I do remember, though, that it was discussed a year or two ago that a doctor's note is/was needed for certain article of player equipment.

So, again, I apologize, you are right here (I think).
Do not apologize to me about anything you said here, we are just having a discussion. That is the reason we have these discussions in the first place. We often learn more within these discussions than we do by simply reading the rulebook or casebook. And you might also be using your state's interpretation. No need what so ever to apologize for a discussion that leads you (or me) to the right application. ;)

Do not worry about it. I was just thinking of situations that might not have a doctor's note available. I am assuming this is why the rule was written this way to leave some opening for multiple situations.

Peace

BillyMac Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:38pm
Please Accept My Sincere Apology ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 643260)
Do not apologize to me about anything you said here, we are just having a discussion.
JRutledge: I'm sorry that representing apologized.

representing Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:38pm
I'm still a newbie on this forum, so I still got lots to learn. Thanks guys! Looking forward to the next discussion haha. :)

JRutledge Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 643261)
JRutledge: I'm sorry that representing apologized.
Now you shut the heck up!!!! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...aughing024.gif

Peace

jdmara Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:54pm
It was actually a men's college game I was watching on TV. I can't remember which one it was at the time we were watching at the local drinking establishment. But after we talked about it at the establishment, we figured out where we heard that rule from, it's a NIRSA flag football rule. Thanks for the discussion

-Josh

tjones1 Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643213)
FED???
Fed = NFHS

jdmara Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:02am
BTW, this is what I saw on the player

McDavidUSA.com - HexPad® Power Shooter™ Arm Sleeve

Back In The Saddle Thu Dec 17, 2009 03:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 643261)
JRutledge: I'm sorry that representing apologized.
This gets my vote for post o' the week! :D

Nevadaref Thu Dec 17, 2009 03:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 643228)
the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

Now that you said that though, it is possible each state association have their own method for proving it is worn for medical reasons. I know at least in PIAA we have to see a doctor's note of some sort that says items such as compression sleeves must be worn for medical purposes. Not sure how it is if it is different in other state's association or if this was something that the NFHS said.
Actually, the NFHS has said the opposite from what you have written. You are new here, but if you would have done a search of our previous threads, you would have seen that I posted the NFHS answer to what "worn for medical purposes" means over two years ago.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...ew-3-5-2d.html

From the other thread with above link:

This was an editorial change…no need for any kind of documentation….from a doctor or otherwise. We can make certain assumptions about what is being worn…knee sleeve, brace, etc. are usually worn for medical purposes. If there is a doubt, all the official has to do is ask the student-athlete, coach, trainer, anyone….”is that being worn for medical purposes?” If the answer is yes, then it’s fine. Vast majority of items will comply. No need to over-think or over-officiate this. If anything was required, medical documentation or a doctor’s note, it would have been stated that way.

Mary Struckhoff
Assistant Director
Basketball & Softball Rules Editor


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