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-   -   When is enough ... enough (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55904-when-enough-enough.html)

Mark Padgett Mon Dec 14, 2009 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOracle (Post 642509)
That is the best advice I have ever seen on here.

I think I first heard it from some guy named Naismith. :p

BillyMac Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:06pm

Technical Fouls ???
 
Top Reasons To Not Give A Technical Foul
You can address a coach before it becomes a problem. A quiet word can go a long way in preventing a
technical foul.
When coaches complain, ask yourself, is the call questionable, is the call wrong. If they have a legitimate
gripe, then allow them some latitude. Be courteous. Do not argue. Be firm and fair
If you know a coach is upset then move away from him or her, even if it means that you and your partner
are not switching or rotating properly.
Warnings can be very effective in preventing situations from escalating. Don't tolerate a lot before a
warning.
Lend a reasonable ear. Coaches like to be heard. If you ignore them then they become more frustrated and are
more likely to lose control.
If an assistant is out of line, then you can speak to the head coach and ask them to help you out.
If a player is out of line then let the coach know. Tell them you've warned their player. That way if you
do give a technical foul, then the coach isn't surprised. Most good coaches will speak to the player first.
If you have had a rough day and know your fuse is short, keep that in mind before you do anything rash.
Ask yourself, does the situation come under one of the top reasons to give a technical foul.
If necessary, give an initial strong warning. Let your partner know about the warning.

Top Reasons To Give A Technical Foul
There are many different factors to consider when deciding to give a technical foul. Generally, there are
three areas of coach's behavior that need attention: when a coach makes it personal, when a coach
draws attention to himself or herself, and when a coach's complaints are persistent.

Some technical fouls are easy. They are black and white situations that leave little room for negotiation:
Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar, or obscene.
A coach questions your integrity.
Inciting an undesirable crowd reaction.
A coach is embarrassing an official.
A coach or player has been warned and has not heeded the warning.
Leaving the confines of the coaching box and complaining.
A coach demonstrates displeasure with your partner and their back is turned.

Other technical fouls are not as black and white. In some situations, a warning may be appropriate
before the technical foul is given:
A coach or player continually demonstrates signals or asks for calls.
If they have interfered with the game or your concentration, then they have usually gone too far.
If giving a technical will help give structure back to the game and if it will have a calming effect on things.

Top Ways To Give A Technical Foul
Calling a technical foul should be no different then calling any other foul. It is simply a rule that requires
a penalty. Maintain a calm attitude, have poise and presence. Don’t personalize it. Don't embarrass the
coach by being demonstrative.
Take your time. Don’t over react. Always sound the whistle and stop the clock with a foul signal. Signal
the technical foul. Take a deep breath to calm yourself. Proceed to the reporting area, report the technical
foul clearly to the table, and leave the area. Never look at a coach when you give a technical foul.
Confer with your partner. If the technical foul is charged to the head coach or bench personnel, have your
partner inform the coach of the loss of the coaching box.
Explanations, it needed should be done by partner. When asked, always explain technical fouls on players
to coaches.

Proceed with the administration of the penalty. After technical fouls, put the ball in play immediately.
The calling official may want to stay away from the coach for a few minutes, even if it means not making
a switch, or making an unneeded switch, after the administration of the technical foul penalty has been
completed.
Because a coach has been penalized with a technical foul does not mean that the coach is allowed
rebuttal time.
Make them earn the second technical foul. Don't be reluctant to give the second technical foul if it
is warranted.

Original Source: The Greater Philadelphia Basketball Official's Association

BillyMac Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:10pm

"Never Mind" (Emily Litella)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 642559)
I think I first heard it from some guy named Naismith.

You mean Broadway Joe Willie Naismith, quarterback for the 1969 Super Bowl winning New York Jets?

Mark Padgett Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 642631)
You mean Broadway Joe Willie Naismith, quarterback for the 1969 Super Bowl winning New York Jets?

Can I get some of your meds?

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 642631)
You mean Broadway Joe Willie Naismith, quarterback for the 1969 Super Bowl winning New York Jets?

Michael Naismith of the Monkees.

BillyMac Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:40pm

Little Known Fact ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 642636)
Michael Naismith of the Monkees.

His mom invented liquid paper (white out) and made a fortune.

Ignats75 Tue Dec 15, 2009 04:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 642636)
Michael Naismith of the Monkees.

You sure he doesn't mean the Michael Naismith of The Stone Ponies?;)

Juulie Downs Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:55am

A lot of times, especially at the lower levels, once you whack the coach, they start coaching better and the team starts to do better. For this reason, I started viewing the T as a favor to a struggling team. If the coach is yipping more than coaching, do him a favor. THen if he keeps yipping and you have to toss him, you're doing EVERYONE a favor -- his kids, the fans, the other team and your partner. Usually, the assistant is a LOT more self--controlled, if only for self-preservation. Then the game can move forward in an orderly way. Don't see it as a last resort, but as a tool that can make the game better.

tomegun Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 642521)
FWIW,
2. Stop sign.

:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

JRutledge Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 642723)
:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

This is why I do not use it as a tool.

Peace

Raymond Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 642723)
:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

I use a verbal stop sign.

Ignats75 Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:55pm

One of the frustrating things about this forum is the near fanatical positions some people take on the stop sign. Some people use them becaue, like me, they have found them to be a useful tool. SOme people don't, because they think it enflames the situation. Good for all of you. To each his own. I've used it twice this year so far and in both cased, the coach reined in his/her emotions (one each) enough to not lose their coaching box. In my case, it did jjust the opposite of enflaming the situation.

But can we get away from trying to start an on-line holy war over the stop sign?

Thank you. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ak...smiley-051.gif

I don't want to have to WHACK all of you!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sa...smiley-046.gif

Chess Ref Tue Dec 15, 2009 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 642723)
:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

It was taught when I first started out. So I got to practice using it in lower level games.

Coach chirping and generally reffing the game for us. For example "thats a travel" yada, yada, yada. Go over and have a conversation with coach. Then if the behavior continued we were taught to give them the "Stop Sign" the next time they started reffing/chirping. Then we were to follow up with the T.

It helped give me some structure in dealing with coaches when I was starting out. Did it make things worse ? Probably but I still had a system in place for dealing with the persistent stuff. I needed all the help I can get.

Do I use it now ? Nope. I now go and have a chat about the chirping and they either stop it or I whistle them for it.

I have come to appreciate Julie's take on things in her post up above. A T is just another foul.

As a sidebar I did have a coach lose her head last night. Didn't like my player control call. As I'm reporting it she comes about 5 feet on the court,stomping her feet, and yelling. That was a no conversation T.
She caught up to me afterwards in the parking lot and informed me my officating days were over cause "she knows people." :)

Chess Ref Tue Dec 15, 2009 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 642723)
:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

It was taught when I first started out. So I got to practice using it in lower level games.

Coach chirping and generally reffing the game for us. For example "thats a travel" yada, yada, yada. Go over and have a conversation with coach. Then if the behavior continued we were taught to give them the "Stop Sign" the next time they started reffing/chirping. Then we were to follow up with the T.

It helped give me some structure in dealing with coaches when I was starting out. Did it make things worse ? Probably but I still had a system in place for dealing with the persistent stuff. I needed all the help I could get.

Do I use it now ? Nope. I now go and have a chat about the chirping and they either stop it or I whistle them for it.

I have come to appreciate Julie's take on things in her post up above. A T is just another foul.

As a sidebar I did have a coach lose her head last night. Didn't like my player control call. As I'm reporting it she comes about 5 feet on the court,stomping her feet, and yelling. That was a no conversation T.
She caught up to me afterwards in the parking lot and informed me my officating days were over cause "she knows people." :)


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