When is enough ... enough
 

bas2456 gave his first T recently. I am a 3 year official and have only given 1 (in my first year). My partner says I take too much s_ _ _ from coaches - I will admit I am having trouble deciding when they have pissed and moaned too much... help or advice...

Had a game Friday - boys JV - my partner and I called a good game in our opinion - but the coaches *****ed non stop most of the game - just about every call... getting real tired of it!:confused:

If you're getting tired of it, you're taking too much.

It doesn't necessarily mean you need to call more Ts, but you may need to take a more direct approach in addressing a coach who is chirping way too much. Early in the game, a statement that indicates that you're not going to listen to his complaining all night (said in a professional way that works for you) is more than appropriate - it sounds like it's needed.

Then, if he continues, you have to be willing to follow up with a T.

Sound advice.

This is a very personal thing. I had a coach on Saturday that complained about a double whistle that I had, where the ball came my area and I made the call in the lane. The coach was out of the box and I reported the foul. Immediately after the foul call, I went up to him and said; "If you are going to say anything to me about a call, it better be in this box" as I walked him back to the box. He later then said to me, "The other coach is out of the box, why don't you say anything to him?" I said back to him, "He is coaching and has not said a word to me.....when he stops coaching, I will address him too." I did not hear another word from this coach about anything. And this was so early in the game, I honestly thought hard about popping him. Now if he had not adhered to me comments, he would have got a T early. I was honestly tired of him already, but felt I could handle it another way. This comes with time and experience to know what to do and what to say and what is too far for you. I could have stuck him and next time he might not get much of a pass, but considering everything, I handled it the way I felt I needed to. I did this by having enough of his crap. I just did not need to do anything.

Peace

For me, and it was the first time I had to deal with it, enough was enough when I said it was. The coach in this situation was vocal all game up until this point. Then I told him I had heard enough. He kept talking so I gave him a technical.

I hope that in the future, I can avoid giving technicals, because nobody likes to deal with them. The trick, as JRutledge has pointed out, is assessing each situation separately. The way I take it, is if you can avoid it by talking with the coach and saying, look, enough is enough, then great. Sometimes you might have to whack him early to get him to stop.

Here is my gauge - when the actions of the coach 'helping/questioning' affect my concentration I deal with it. If it continues, I apply a simple, proven administrative method that starts with a 'T'

IMO, you need to address it in some manner; doesn't necessarily equate to giving a 'T'.

I had a coach Saturday who was getting on my nerves. Whining the whole 1st quarter even though his team was up by 10 AND the foul count was in his favor. After the 1st quarter when I went to the table he started to approach me about "contact on both ends, blah, blah, blah". I cut him off before he could finish and told him that "this is not a conversation we are going to have". He tried me one more time in the 2nd quarter on block call he didn't like. I ended that conversation ratherly tersely. Didn't hear from him the rest of the game.

You need to remember you are the authority figure in the game. Sometimes you just need to take charge.

There's an old saying that the purpose of a technical is to stop bad behavior, and if you can stop the bad behavior without issuing the T, you're just that much ahead.

That is the best advice I have ever seen on here.

If a coach is out of his box, even if he is just coaching, we still need to make sure he stays in his box. I am not saying you need to warn or whack them just kindly remind them to stay within the lines.

FWIW,
When I started, 6 years ago, I recognized real quickly I was gonna have to learn to deal with the coaches. I, quite frankly, wasn't gonna have people yelling at me. I came here and got the advice. I applied the advice and its like magic. It works.

I'm now a Varsity ref and I address things real early in my games. I follow up when necessary and for the most part there aren't many coaching tantrums other then the "head pops off" kind. Addressing these are a no brainer -TWEET

But the ongoing whining and complaining doesn't fly for very long with me.:mad:

Get the advice here you need and then apply it.

I went with the three step method when I started out.

1. Talk with them.
2. Stop sign.
3. Reward their behavior.....

It worked for me.:)

You need to pregame this. The first time it gets to be excessive, you or a partner needs to blow the whistle (during a dead ball), step out, and announce that "the bench has been warned." This is, of course, after saying something to the effect of "we've heard enough" to the coach. After the verbal announcement, each partner can deal with whatever issues come up as he or she sees fit, however, if you choose to call a T then, you've laid a perfect foundation for it, and everyone on the floor knows it.

This will likely prevent the other bench from doing something similar. This technique has worked pretty well for us, but it requires a pregame discussion.

You really missed the point.

Peace

Wow!
 

And you got it from Mark? I'm impressed.....I think! :p

I'm sure Jeff does..........

I think I first heard it from some guy named Naismith. :p

Technical Fouls ???
 

Top Reasons To Not Give A Technical Foul
You can address a coach before it becomes a problem. A quiet word can go a long way in preventing a
technical foul.
When coaches complain, ask yourself, is the call questionable, is the call wrong. If they have a legitimate
gripe, then allow them some latitude. Be courteous. Do not argue. Be firm and fair
If you know a coach is upset then move away from him or her, even if it means that you and your partner
are not switching or rotating properly.
Warnings can be very effective in preventing situations from escalating. Don't tolerate a lot before a
warning.
Lend a reasonable ear. Coaches like to be heard. If you ignore them then they become more frustrated and are
more likely to lose control.
If an assistant is out of line, then you can speak to the head coach and ask them to help you out.
If a player is out of line then let the coach know. Tell them you've warned their player. That way if you
do give a technical foul, then the coach isn't surprised. Most good coaches will speak to the player first.
If you have had a rough day and know your fuse is short, keep that in mind before you do anything rash.
Ask yourself, does the situation come under one of the top reasons to give a technical foul.
If necessary, give an initial strong warning. Let your partner know about the warning.

Top Reasons To Give A Technical Foul
There are many different factors to consider when deciding to give a technical foul. Generally, there are
three areas of coach's behavior that need attention: when a coach makes it personal, when a coach
draws attention to himself or herself, and when a coach's complaints are persistent.

Some technical fouls are easy. They are black and white situations that leave little room for negotiation:
Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar, or obscene.
A coach questions your integrity.
Inciting an undesirable crowd reaction.
A coach is embarrassing an official.
A coach or player has been warned and has not heeded the warning.
Leaving the confines of the coaching box and complaining.
A coach demonstrates displeasure with your partner and their back is turned.

Other technical fouls are not as black and white. In some situations, a warning may be appropriate
before the technical foul is given:
A coach or player continually demonstrates signals or asks for calls.
If they have interfered with the game or your concentration, then they have usually gone too far.
If giving a technical will help give structure back to the game and if it will have a calming effect on things.

Top Ways To Give A Technical Foul
Calling a technical foul should be no different then calling any other foul. It is simply a rule that requires
a penalty. Maintain a calm attitude, have poise and presence. Don’t personalize it. Don't embarrass the
coach by being demonstrative.
Take your time. Don’t over react. Always sound the whistle and stop the clock with a foul signal. Signal
the technical foul. Take a deep breath to calm yourself. Proceed to the reporting area, report the technical
foul clearly to the table, and leave the area. Never look at a coach when you give a technical foul.
Confer with your partner. If the technical foul is charged to the head coach or bench personnel, have your
partner inform the coach of the loss of the coaching box.
Explanations, it needed should be done by partner. When asked, always explain technical fouls on players
to coaches.

Proceed with the administration of the penalty. After technical fouls, put the ball in play immediately.
The calling official may want to stay away from the coach for a few minutes, even if it means not making
a switch, or making an unneeded switch, after the administration of the technical foul penalty has been
completed.
Because a coach has been penalized with a technical foul does not mean that the coach is allowed
rebuttal time.
Make them earn the second technical foul. Don't be reluctant to give the second technical foul if it
is warranted.

Original Source: The Greater Philadelphia Basketball Official's Association

"Never Mind" (Emily Litella)
 

You mean Broadway Joe Willie Naismith, quarterback for the 1969 Super Bowl winning New York Jets?

Can I get some of your meds?

Michael Naismith of the Monkees.

Little Known Fact ...
 

His mom invented liquid paper (white out) and made a fortune.

You sure he doesn't mean the Michael Naismith of The Stone Ponies?;)

A lot of times, especially at the lower levels, once you whack the coach, they start coaching better and the team starts to do better. For this reason, I started viewing the T as a favor to a struggling team. If the coach is yipping more than coaching, do him a favor. THen if he keeps yipping and you have to toss him, you're doing EVERYONE a favor -- his kids, the fans, the other team and your partner. Usually, the assistant is a LOT more self--controlled, if only for self-preservation. Then the game can move forward in an orderly way. Don't see it as a last resort, but as a tool that can make the game better.

:rolleyes:

Can you explain your procedure in detail. As many know, I have been against this for years and there has been a recent move (In my area at least) to stop doing this. If used like it was in the past, it possibly makes the situation worse.

This is why I do not use it as a tool.

Peace

I use a verbal stop sign.

One of the frustrating things about this forum is the near fanatical positions some people take on the stop sign. Some people use them becaue, like me, they have found them to be a useful tool. SOme people don't, because they think it enflames the situation. Good for all of you. To each his own. I've used it twice this year so far and in both cased, the coach reined in his/her emotions (one each) enough to not lose their coaching box. In my case, it did jjust the opposite of enflaming the situation.

But can we get away from trying to start an on-line holy war over the stop sign?

Thank you. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ak...smiley-051.gif

I don't want to have to WHACK all of you!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sa...smiley-046.gif

It was taught when I first started out. So I got to practice using it in lower level games.

Coach chirping and generally reffing the game for us. For example "thats a travel" yada, yada, yada. Go over and have a conversation with coach. Then if the behavior continued we were taught to give them the "Stop Sign" the next time they started reffing/chirping. Then we were to follow up with the T.

It helped give me some structure in dealing with coaches when I was starting out. Did it make things worse ? Probably but I still had a system in place for dealing with the persistent stuff. I needed all the help I can get.

Do I use it now ? Nope. I now go and have a chat about the chirping and they either stop it or I whistle them for it.

I have come to appreciate Julie's take on things in her post up above. A T is just another foul.

As a sidebar I did have a coach lose her head last night. Didn't like my player control call. As I'm reporting it she comes about 5 feet on the court,stomping her feet, and yelling. That was a no conversation T.
She caught up to me afterwards in the parking lot and informed me my officating days were over cause "she knows people." :)

It was taught when I first started out. So I got to practice using it in lower level games.

Coach chirping and generally reffing the game for us. For example "thats a travel" yada, yada, yada. Go over and have a conversation with coach. Then if the behavior continued we were taught to give them the "Stop Sign" the next time they started reffing/chirping. Then we were to follow up with the T.

It helped give me some structure in dealing with coaches when I was starting out. Did it make things worse ? Probably but I still had a system in place for dealing with the persistent stuff. I needed all the help I could get.

Do I use it now ? Nope. I now go and have a chat about the chirping and they either stop it or I whistle them for it.

I have come to appreciate Julie's take on things in her post up above. A T is just another foul.

As a sidebar I did have a coach lose her head last night. Didn't like my player control call. As I'm reporting it she comes about 5 feet on the court,stomping her feet, and yelling. That was a no conversation T.
She caught up to me afterwards in the parking lot and informed me my officating days were over cause "she knows people." :)