Violation or not?
 

Two situations, but somewhat similar. Are one or both a violation?

1. Can a player in his backcourt who has picked up his dribble, throw the ball off of his opponent's backboard, then catch and dribble again?

2. 1. Can a player in his frontcourt who has picked up his dribble, throw the ball off of his backboard, then catch and dribble again?

Off the Glass
 

Casebook 4.15.4C.
1. No
2. Perhaps, assuming it is considered a "try"

+ 1 with Freddy. I just read this in the case book last night.

Off the glass
 

I agree with you, I thought the only way he could dribble again if he actually tries a shot, which hits backboard or rim and then he can rebound the ball and dribble again. BUT, check out Case Book, page 73, "Dribble Rule" 9.5 situation and see if that allows player to throw the ball off his own backboard. This is what has caused my question.

I see why you're asking. The rationale given in that case ("a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s 'equipment' and may be used") is unrelated to the issue of whether A1 has made a try.

Nothing in the definition of 'dribble' (4-15) or 'illegal dribble' (9-5) supports this rationale. So where is it?

It just is. :)

To be considered a "try", the ball does not have to hit the backboard or rim. The only qualification is that, in the opinion of the official, it was a legitimate try for goal.

Definitely, one of the most misunderstood rules. Right BillyBob, er, I mean BillyMac?

Yep, and the flip side of this is 99% of the time when it hits the backboard or rim, it's considered a try regardless of the player's intent.

I'm fine with that. But that's not the rationale given in 9.5, which says that the pass off one's own backboard is allowed because it's team "equipment."

I really don't get that either, to be honest.

Off the glass
 

I must agree with Snaqwells, the word "equipment" in the case book, makes no sense to me. I have always thought that a "try for goal" allows the player to rebound and dribble again, regardless of did it hit the backboard or not. Case book says to throw the ball against the backboard will allow and offensive player to dribble again. I need clarification on is this the "rule" or not!!

Yes, it's the rule.

Props to the player if he can do that without one of the other nine players getting to the ball first.

This is a multi rule quote and has led to many mis understandings:

Rules in reference here:

9-5
4-31
4-41
4-15

The own equipment is referenced by the words "own goal" in 4-41. It can not be a shot ot opponents goal and this is part of the floor as defined by 4-15 and 4-13

Off the glass
 

dbking, thanks for your reply and the information. Rule 9, section 5 states, "A player shall not dribble a second time after his first dribble has ended, unless it is after he has lost control because of;
1. A try for goal (my point on this whole situation)
2. A touch by opponent
3. A pass or fumble that was then touch by an opponent.

Why wouldn't there be a number 4? A pass off of his own backboard which he then catches would allow him to dribble again.

I am back to the beginning, I still think if he does not try a shot, this is a violation.

Hasn't there been a recent interpretation or change (don't have my casebook) that implies that any time a player throws the ball against his own backboard it should be treated as a try for goal?

Yes, 9.5 (iirc)

Thanks. It's been that way in my mind, but I couldn't remember if it was something I read or something I was taught. Or something my mind made up on me.

Any of the three was possible. ;)

Also, Basketball Rule Fundamental #19: "A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower's backboard, it does not constitute part of a dribble."

I know this has been discussed at great length and there are still disagreements about it but I think it's worth noting that 9.5 does not say "any time a player throws the ball against his own backboard it should be treated as a try for goal." Some may think it implies that but that is their own interpretation.

9.5 states; A teams own backboard is part of that team's equipment and may be used.

4-4-5 states; When the ball touches the thrower's backboard it does not constitute part of a dribble.

These are the only two references (rules or case) that I can think of right now that state anything about using your own backboard other than during a try. I'm not completely convinced that these statements imply that any time a player throws the ball against his own backboard it should be treated as a try for goal.

I agree. But, I do think they mean "A1 has lost player control and may regain player control and dribble again"

Talladega Nights
 

Admittedly, I haven't convinced myself of what the Fed expects of us here, but I do know how I am going to call it. Although I'm not going to say how just yet, but I would like to add thought for more disagreement.

This dialogue from Talladega Nights comes to mind

Ricky Bobby: "I said with all due respect"
Dennit: "That doesn't mean you get to say anything you want"
Ricky Bobby: "Sure as heck does, it's in the Geneva Convention, look it up"

I don't think throwing the ball against your own backboard allows a player to break any of the other rules. In my mind it would be just like throwing the ball into the air and it doesn't touch anything. If the ball didn't touch or wasn't touched by another player, we wouldn't allow a second dribble.

These thoughts are as if the throw was not a try. If your feet moved in excess of the limits, it would be travel. If you had already ended your dribble, threw the ball against your own backboard then dribbled again, it would be an illegal dribble. If you were being defended and had not used your dribble, threw the ball over the defenders head against your own backboard, ran around the player and caught the ball, it would be a travel (illegal dribble last year).

Any way, you get the point. I can't wrap my head around why throwing the ball against your own backboard doesn't stand alone as just that, throwing the ball against your own backboard. For some reason, we have stretched it out there to mean we can break other rules once we have recovered it. maybe it's in the Geneva Convention. I'll look it up. :)

Just Don't Call Me Late For Dinner ...
 

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.