With all due respect....
 

....I was a member here before, primarily in another sport. I left. Why?

Simply because it seems that there are many guys on here that want to play "gotcha" with loaded questions, or use mistakes in grammar to blast somebody as being wrong.

It seems that some around here (no, I will no start naming names) want to argue and nitpick, rather than discuss and educate.

I certainly know how easy it is to fall into the traps of playing "gotcha!" and flame wars. I have certainly been involved with my share of both on other BBS's.

I took a LONG break from BBS's (about a year....forever in internet terms...LOL) and just recently came back here to engage in discussions about basketball, which is a very new sport for me.

I gotta say, I am about ready to leave. It seems that almost every thread turns into a p i s s i n g match!

Guys, if your contributions, EVEN SOME OF THE TIME is nothing more than arguing against somebody, maybe you need a break from this! Seriously! If posting questions, then replying with "gotcha" is something you do more than say once every 3 months or so, maybe it is time for a break. You are obviously missing the spirit of what a BBS is about.

Really, it comes down to the "Golden Rule". Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Maybe as sports officials, I would challenge you to treat others BETTER than you would like to be treated, and BETTER THAN THEY DESERVE! Let's leave the baiting, heckling, and gamesmanship to the coaches! ;) We are supposed to be a team, and not JUST on the field of play.

Can I get a AMEN? :)

I'm not going to go so far as to give you that amen, but I know what you are saying. I will say this, knowing that some of those "gotchas" may come my way: what you see on internet sites are often people with mysterious personas who can say and do whatever they want from behind their keyboard. In reality, some people can't officiate their way out of the locker room, but have something to say about every aspect of the game. I'm not necessarily talking about this site.

This year is my first year back in Vegas and there are many faces I don't know. When an individual always has a wise-guy comment I always ask someone I know if that person can officiate. Every time, the answer is no. Those are the officials who I would think should learn how to shut up and listen first. In Southern Nevada we are going through some volatile times and listening should be priority number one.

What I will agree with you about is we are a team. With the proper dedication and listening skills, we can all become better officials, better partners and better caretakers of the game we all love.

overall I agree with your viewpoint...it can become rather argumentative in here with too many posts digressing into the "I'm right and you're wrong" viewpoint.

forums like this (as well as email, instant messaging, and texting) are a poor method of communicating - especially when a situation presented really requires a person to have seen the play live (or on tape) in order to answer effectively. additionally, comments are too often extrapolated out to their extremes. it's also hard to know when/how much sarcasm is conveyed via the typed word - if any at all.

can I make a suggestion?

as with other things in life, don't take all the viewpoints/comments of people in here so personal. you don't know them, they don't know you - so you should never be offended by people you don't know (what do you care what they think anyway?). take the comments and suggestions that make sense to heart and disregard the rest....

imho, i think you'll enjoy this forum much more if you can do that.

happy holidays!

Hey umpref,

Under User CP there is an Ignore List...it's a beautiful thing. There are several people on my Ignore list as I believe they are exactly the kind of people you are talking about. Conversely, I am sure I am on several people's Ignore List. It makes the whole Board so much better when you don't have to read the postings of certain people.

Maybe I'm missing something, but, at this moment, in glancing at the whole first page of posts, I'm not sure where I find very many pissing matches at all, much less "almost every thread". Or, just by the mere fact I disagree, is this now considered a pissing match? :)

There are many of us that take this avocation very seriously. Some would say even passionately. Since officiating can be just as much an art as it is a science, there can be passionate opinions on both sides of an issue where both sides feel equally correct. Since the goal is for all of us to be on the same "team", how do you propose we discuss rules, mechanics, and philosophies with officials who disagree? Should we just sit back, nod our head, and say, "Ok, we disgree"? How does that contribute to getting us all on that same team, with the same philosophies?

Another aspect to officiating in general, and not just basketball, is having a thick skin when it comes to criticism and complaints. Part of growing as an official is having the confidence to deal with criticism, and knowing how to communicate well enough to express thoughts and ideas without getting into pissing matches. Also, understanding who you're communicating with can go a long way towards understanding how to communicate with them. Perhaps some of the communication that goes on here may seem like pissing matches to the casual observer, when it is nothing more than kidding around between friends.

Not right at the moment. But, thanks for asking. :)

And here I thought we'd turned more kindlier and gentlier.

FWIW ("For What It's Worth" for those of you over 60), if I write something that offends someone, I prefer to get a private post informing me of my transgression so I can either explain myself or apologize publicly (if appropriate).

I agree with M&M, I really haven't seen anything lately that fits the description of the OP. I guess that means I owe M&M an "amen" or something.

Nah, just a simple "shut up" will do. :D

Before you shut up, could you repeat your post?

Shut up.

(Oh, wait, not that post?) :D

I agree and I disagree. Honestly I do think there are people that take things too far. But honestly, I could give a damn. I have better things to worry about then what someone says that I will never work with or meet ever. And I have stopped engaging in a lot of discussions on here because I have better things to do. Honestly, it is about your approach to life. Do you really care what some guy sitting behind a computer really thinks? I know I don't. And like JeffPea said, people rely too much on interactions of text and email style conversations, they do not know the difference when someone is being mean or just giving them information. My thing is if you like the place stay. If you do not like the place, leave. Either way what we think of you or don't think of you should not ever matter. I doubt anyone here gives you games or will work with you. And if they do meet you, they probably will not have the balls to say anything to your face. This is about my 13th year here and on many of these boards; I am the same here as I am in public. In public is it just easier to show how matter of fact these discussions are to me. On here, people take a lot of things personal when you are just giving a point of view. I do not have time to hold everyone's hand and neither should anyone else. With all due respect. :D

Peace

Snaqs, did you attend the Tiger Woods school of PR?

There is also the ignore feature that you can employ for posters you find irritating. Hello? Hello? HellOOOOOOOOO!

re. "You're-an-Eight-ing Matches"
 

Welcome, new guy, to a discussion board which will teach you, enlighten you, inspire you, sometimes discomfort you, and oft-times entertain you.
Don't let the sometimes cranky responses upset you. Treat them as you would a chatty coach -- ignore them.
After a while you will, as I did, become desensitized to the chatter and glean the good stuff available here.
Not really an "Amen", cuz I've kinda come to enjoy the snide responses now and then.
And don't worry about having to correct my grammer or speeling. Mistaks like that are something even I can'not put up with.
Enjoy your season!

Dude, you're going to give mbyron a heart attack.

Please ...
 

rockyroad: Please take me off your ignore list. I occasionally have a few pertinent things to say. Not very often, but, occasionally.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
 

umpref: There's a lot of great advice on this Forum. Just ignore anything that you find offensive. And even if your treated disrespectfully, be the bigger man, and treat those posters with respect, whether they deserve it, or not. That's what I do. I kill them with kindness, and, images, lots of images.

I respectfully disagree ...
 

I'm a rookie, I'm too young to join pissing contests, and I don't know enough to contribute that much here. But, where else can I get home from a game at 9:00PM from a game, post a question from the game, and get an answer from several experts before I go to bed.

I understand that it can get contentious here, but overall this board is a great resource that makes anyone who reads a better ref. Criticize all you want, but if I get good answers I'll keep reading.

I take these forums with a grain of salt. I learn a heck of a lot from them but I don't let the arguments bother me. I take what I can and give what I can and don't let the rest bother me. It's like TV. I can always turn the channel by moving on to another thread. Most people in here are good-hearted people who want to learn more about officiating and improve their game. I never take it personal in here.

No big deal. Have a good day. Kumbaya. Sideline warning, no yardage.:)

I agree. As a 2nd year ref I utilize the forum the same way and found it very helpful during my rookie year. Ask the question the right way and I found the replies from the vets to be extremely helpful whether the question was about a rule sitch or a question on mechanics and positioning.
Regarding the point raised in the OP...while my lack of experience and mastery of the rules and the case book would obviously keep me out of engaging in the type of discussion the poster refers to... what I do find frustrating is that someone posts a sitch which lets say has to with POI. The "gotcha" type stuff at time gets so bad you never learn (as a newbie) the correct way to handle the sitch should it ever occur in one of your games.
It gets lost in all the "squabbling"....so I always appreciate it when one of the "cooler heads" prevail and brings the conversation back to point...based on specific rule book/case book references.
That said, I do enjoy the forum and continue to learn from the experience of others.

What?? What did he say?? Did you guys hear anything?:D

With all due respect
 

First of all, welcome back.

Second, if this place is useful to you, then by all means please participate and contribute.

Third, please don't be yet another ungrateful whiner who tries to refashion the forum after his or her own Utopian ideal.

If you want to be part of this community, then be part of it. If you don't, then don't. Either way, it won't cost you a dime. But we are what we are; don't expect us to change for you.

Can I get an AMEN? :rolleyes:

How's that 12 step program working for you, Billy? :D

Personally I've been viewing this forum for nearly five years and been a member for over two years. I love how the rules and philosophy are discussed from every and all angles. Yes, there are some "pissing matches" every now and then, but generally, you can find some good points in these arguments and add them to repertoire and ignore the rest/what doesn't work for you.

I take it you never visited McGriff's Refonline? Oy.

Amen brother BITS!

Amen!

Umpref:

I'm a first year official, so I mostly just ask questions or read current threads.

I read three boards at least once every day and sometimes multiple times each day:

1. A Quality Forum

2. A Myrtle Beach Golf Forum

3. This Forum

What do they have in common? Lots of very knowledeable people who are willing to share their expertise, for free. None of them are perfect, not all of the stuff is terrific or on topic, but all three consistently give me a reason to read.

If certain people bother you that much, put them on ignore. I know that some posters are not to my taste, but "so ist das Leben"

This is my first year and I find this board is always informative, sometimes amusing, and yes every once in a while you read a reply that makes you say OUCH. These boards are communities, some might say families. I have an uncle who irritates me with his politics, offends me with his humor and can generally be a pain. I still invite him to dinner.

The first thing to learn, as a first year official, is NEVER use French :eek: on the discussion board. Latin, yes. French, NYET! ;)

Freddy, Thanks. I fixed it above.

This message board is extremely mild compared to many, so be glad you can actually find more useful content than not here. This place is where I learn the most about situations and the different ways to look at the rules.

What I find more annoying than the bantering are the lame attempts at humor and when threads become personal conversations way off topic. There are some people who think they are pretty self-important, but I generally ignore their posts. Overall this is an outstanding resource.

I liken it to a corner saloon where you have all types of patrons whose banter is fueled by drink, in our case anonymity, who freely express their views. I appreciate the diversity both in the personalities and the levels of officials here.

I've also noticed more civility towards new officials over the year, where in the past some were intimidating with their responses to the newbies.
I do miss Jurassic, who was always the voice of common sense to me and had alot to offer officials on any level.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

Maybe umpref intended his post for the baseball forum. ;)

Eat the meat and spit out the bones! Use what you can use and throw out the rest and dont take anything personal.

I agree. What makes this place interesting and useful is that it attracts so many different people, from different backgrounds, varying experience levels, with diverse philosophies. It's great to be able to pick so many different people's brains about actual situations or wacky what-ifs. I constantly learn things here, certainly from the veterans, but it's not uncommon to learn things from new officials too.

I like the people here as well. This place is unique, in my experience, as a place for officials to hang out. Officiating is a huge passion for me, but my real world opportunities to hang out with other officials is pretty limited. I know some locales have their local watering hole where officials gather after games. There's nothing like that here.

And yeah, the anonymity is both a blessing and a curse. People say things they wouldn't normally, and probably shouldn't, say. But it also gives me a chance to explore questions, philosophies, points of view, etc. that I wouldn't be able to in the real world without consequences.

And it reinforces my sense of self-importance (Sorry, Smitty, just had to run with that one a bit) ;)

That is going to happen on any board where you have a solid group that is constantly contributing. I have noticed that here, but in other places. You must understand that some people here actually know each other and have known each other on the board (not including real life) for almost 10 years. That is just going to happen. Even the people here that I have had knock down drag out fights with, I have met personally at camps or were people that showed me support when I worked some big assignments. That will never go away even if you wanted it to. You just have to ignore like you said, or participate. At the end of the day, this is a good place to get some information you might not get in many places. But I would suggest that just like any advice, you verify it with the people you work for and take what you can use and throw out what you cannot.

I heard a person talk years ago about picking up pennies. If you can pick up a penny that helps you out and leave the rest there, you have accomplished something. That is all this place should be for most people. You are not going to learn everything about officiating by reading this board or any other board.

Peace

I completely agree with you. I wouldn't expect anything to change on this board and the good far outweighs the bad. We are fortunate that there is rarely a need for a moderator to pull posts or deal with any flame wars. It could be A LOT worse, for sure.

Is His Name On Some Kind Of List ???
 

Does he try to "tickle" you?

A Sobering Thought ...
 

Liken? Hey. I only post on the Forum after I've had a few glasses of wine, or a six pack, or a few stiff drinks. You think that I would post while I was sober?

I must say Mr. Mack.....
 

This does explain alot! ;)

Old Officials Never Die, They Just Switch Forums ...
 

He's still around:

Basketballrefs.com - View Profile: JurassicReferee

Classic line on his profile page: "JurassicReferee has not made any friends yet."

Dueling Latins ...
 

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Or better: Semper ubi sub ubi.

My other favorite is: Quid quid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

Gentlemen, please stop these. My Rosetta Stone Latin free trial edition has not yet arrived (not that it would be particularly useful for these phrases).

subsiste sermonem statim? :D

I gave up on that forum long ago! ;)