What do I do?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Personally, I ignore it, but bring it to the attention of partners at half. Count it as a learning experience and file it away. It may have been discussed by both teams days before the game and agreed upon by both.

It was agreed upon by both. I asked one of the coaches and he said that the home team wanted to have a "black out" game so the visiting team agreed to wear whites.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

It was agreed upon by both. I asked one of the coaches and he said that the home team wanted to have a "black out" game so the visiting team agreed to wear whites.

Then why are we even having this discussion? Game on, they both agreed earlier.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Then why are we even having this discussion? Game on, they both agreed earlier.

Because it is possible that they didn't bother to clear it with the state association or league office.
If I were one of the Us, then I would inform the R and let him deal with it.
If I were the R, then I would ask the home school if they received documentation or permission from the state office for their "black-out" game.

As officials we don't write the rules, we simply enforce them and we don't have the authority to grant exceptions or set them aside.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because it is possible that they didn't bother to clear it with the state association or league office.
If I were one of the Us, then I would inform the R and let him deal with it.
If I were the R, then I would ask the home school if they received documentation or permission from the state office for their "black-out" game.

As officials we don't write the rules, we simply enforce them and we don't have the authority to grant exceptions or set them aside.

We've been down this road before. Take me to the woodshed. Game on, and I'm not reporting it. I can't even fathom any assignor in the Chicago area that would disagree with me.

I understand your reasoning, it just doesn't apply in this situation IMHO. I may point out to home school, as you mentioned, but would never ask for documentation. Seriously, I'd be laughed out the Chicagoland area.

Why do I picture some Nazi border agent saying " Papers Pleez"

[rfp]

In one of the HS leagues I officiate, the home school wears dark and the visitors white. That's just what they do, I don't know why.

In this case, I would mention your observation to the R. I'm 99% sure he'll pass on it. If you were to override him in this case and whack both coaches, as a brand new varsity official, I think that's suicide. If anyone asks you why you let it go, you can rightly say you brought it to the attention of the more senior official and he decided to let it go (for whatever reason). Then it's his issue. I think you get in more trouble for crossing your partner(s) in this case, than for sticking your neck out to enforce a rule like this. JMHO.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Varsity Boys Game. I'm an up-and-coming official who after a few years of hard work, camps, watching film, attending games and listening to everyone's advice have made it on the varsity list. Both my partners are experienced guys. I've learned to keep my mouth shut when needed and to just do my job.

We start the game with the toss and on the first dead ball after the toss I realize the home team is in black and the away team is sporting the white. (I know it is something that should have been caught in the warm-ups but I missed it. In the post below by IndianaRef they caught it in the JV game, but our game didn't have a JV game prior Home Team wear Dark). I know the rule 3-4-1c and the penalty 10-5-4.

So here is my question? What do I do?

A. Do I do what by rule I should do. Double T sit both coaches and move on with the game, possibly ruffling a few feathers of my partners, but doing what the rule book says.

B. Do I go talk to the R inform him of the situation and pass the buck onto him and willing to live with the decision he makes.

C. Or Do I just ignore it all together. No Big Deal. Both teams are happy. Move on with life and the game?

What is the advantage of going with A?

I would go with B. In our state (I'm assuming that BITS is correct about your locale) the R is in charge. If he/she elects to ignore it and the state gets mad, you have shifted knowledge/responsiblity to him and you know that you let him know.

IMO, the mutual agreement of the coaches makes this no big deal. If I were the R, I would probably go with C.

Just MO.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by stripes

IMO, the mutual agreement of the coaches makes this no big deal. If I were the R, I would probably go with C.

Had a discussion at an association meeting a few years back where coaches "agreed" to some deviation of a rule that was seen as "no big deal." We were told bluntly that the coaches do not get to make that decision. What if they agreed to six fouls per player? Or a goal scored from beyond the arc was worth two points, not three?

The officials are required to know and to enforce all the rules. This advice was from a veteran official who is active in the state high school athletic association.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Had a discussion at an association meeting a few years back where coaches "agreed" to some deviation of a rule that was seen as "no big deal." We were told bluntly that the coaches do not get to make that decision. What if they agreed to six fouls per player? Or a goal scored from beyond the arc was worth two points, not three?

The officials are required to know and to enforce all the rules. This advice was from a veteran official who is active in the state high school athletic association.

Apples and oranges, IMO. One team had white unis the other had dark. Play ball.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by stripes

What is the advantage of going with A?

I don't know if there is any real advantage to A, unless you felt it needed to be done. I could have always plead ignorance to my partners and begged their forgiveness for being too controlling. I always had the "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" mentality with my parents.

I went with option B. I informed my partners and then moved on with the game.

[AKOFL]

Advantage to A is the coach has to sit and has a short leash. Thats a biggie

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Varsity Boys Game. I'm an up-and-coming official who after a few years of hard work, camps, watching film, attending games and listening to everyone's advice have made it on the varsity list. Both my partners are experienced guys. I've learned to keep my mouth shut when needed and to just do my job.

We start the game with the toss and on the first dead ball after the toss I realize the home team is in black and the away team is sporting the white. (I know it is something that should have been caught in the warm-ups but I missed it. In the post below by IndianaRef they caught it in the JV game, but our game didn't have a JV game prior Home Team wear Dark). I know the rule 3-4-1c and the penalty 10-5-4.

So here is my question? What do I do?

A. Do I do what by rule I should do. Double T sit both coaches and move on with the game, possibly ruffling a few feathers of my partners, but doing what the rule book says.

B. Do I go talk to the R inform him of the situation and pass the buck onto him and willing to live with the decision he makes.

C. Or Do I just ignore it all together. No Big Deal. Both teams are happy. Move on with life and the game?

We have several referees in Central Ohio who call EVERYTHING by the book -- literally, by the book. We have several other referees who follow the "Spirit of the Rules", but not necessarily EVERYTHING by the book.

It has been my experience as a coach and referee that the EVERYTHING by the book guys hit a glass ceiling well before the State Tournament level (they get Sectional and District games, but seldom do you see them in the Regionals or the State Final Four. The higher level games seem to be dominated by the "Spirit of the Rules" guys.

In this case, if you look at "advantage/disadvantage", the VISITING team may have been put at a disadvantage by allowing the home team to have their "Blackout" crowd get more into the game. But, the visiting coach was OK with it -- perhaps, the two teams had even agreed to change roles when they met for a second time later in the season.

In my experience, the guys who continue to move up are NOT the guys who show up their experienced partners (Option A definitely would do that). Guys who continue to move up are also typically NOT guys who want to show everyone in the crowd that they know every single rule in the Rules Book LITERALLY. If a player tragically dies in a car accident on a Wednesday and a parent of one of the players sews a small patch with the fallen player's number on it, that patch is illegal. YOU KNOW the penalty for this. What are YOU going to do?

High School sports are to be fun for the participants and fun for the students. Such an event ("Blackout") likely made the game more fun for all.

From what I have witnessed, if you want to be doing games at the Regional and State levels (and, perhaps, beyond that), I would suggest you inform the referee in your game. If he or she chooses to do nothing, that is his/her choice.

I would mention the situation to your assignor at some point to get his/her view on how to handle the situation in the future. If you want to continually move up, you tyically have to have the help of a number of folks -- ADs, assignors, fellow referees and coaches. It has been my experience that going out of one's way to look for trouble generally is not the best way to get there. There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

We have several referees in Central Ohio who call EVERYTHING by the book -- literally, by the book. We have several other referees who follow the "Spirit of the Rules", but not necessarily EVERYTHING by the book.

It has been my experience as a coach and referee that the EVERYTHING by the book guys hit a glass ceiling well before the State Tournament level (they get Sectional and District games, but seldom do you see them in the Regionals or the State Final Four. The higher level games seem to be dominated by the "Spirit of the Rules" guys.

In this case, if you look at "advantage/disadvantage", the VISITING team may have been put at a disadvantage by allowing the home team to have their "Blackout" crowd get more into the game. But, the visiting coach was OK with it -- perhaps, the two teams had even agreed to change roles when they met for a second time later in the season.

In my experience, the guys who continue to move up are NOT the guys who show up their experienced partners (Option A definitely would do that). Guys who continue to move up are also typically NOT guys who want to show everyone in the crowd that they know every single rule in the Rules Book LITERALLY. If a player tragically dies in a car accident on a Wednesday and a parent of one of the players sews a small patch with the fallen player's number on it, that patch is illegal. YOU KNOW the penalty for this. What are YOU going to do?

High School sports are to be fun for the participants and fun for the students. Such an event ("Blackout") likely made the game more fun for all.

From what I have witnessed, if you want to be doing games at the Regional and State levels (and, perhaps, beyond that), I would suggest you inform the referee in your game. If he or she chooses to do nothing, that is his/her choice.

I would mention the situation to your assignor at some point to get his/her view on how to handle the situation in the future. If you want to continually move up, you tyically have to have the help of a number of folks -- ADs, assignors, fellow referees and coaches. It has been my experience that going out of one's way to look for trouble generally is not the best way to get there. There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

Well said.

Spirit of the rules= common sense

I have friend who is a Big Ten coach(football) and likes to use the acronym 'CTA'

Can't Teach Awareness

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

Thanks. I've realized this and I'm still forming my opinions and philosophies which is why I threw the situation out there, so I could hear the advice and feedback and reasoning that seasoned guys on here could provide me. So I appreciate the help and insight from all of you! Thanks.