What do I do?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Varsity Boys Game. I'm an up-and-coming official who after a few years of hard work, camps, watching film, attending games and listening to everyone's advice have made it on the varsity list. Both my partners are experienced guys. I've learned to keep my mouth shut when needed and to just do my job.

We start the game with the toss and on the first dead ball after the toss I realize the home team is in black and the away team is sporting the white. (I know it is something that should have been caught in the warm-ups but I missed it. In the post below by IndianaRef they caught it in the JV game, but our game didn't have a JV game prior Home Team wear Dark). I know the rule 3-4-1c and the penalty 10-5-4.

So here is my question? What do I do?

A. Do I do what by rule I should do. Double T sit both coaches and move on with the game, possibly ruffling a few feathers of my partners, but doing what the rule book says.

B. Do I go talk to the R inform him of the situation and pass the buck onto him and willing to live with the decision he makes.

C. Or Do I just ignore it all together. No Big Deal. Both teams are happy. Move on with life and the game?

We have several referees in Central Ohio who call EVERYTHING by the book -- literally, by the book. We have several other referees who follow the "Spirit of the Rules", but not necessarily EVERYTHING by the book.

It has been my experience as a coach and referee that the EVERYTHING by the book guys hit a glass ceiling well before the State Tournament level (they get Sectional and District games, but seldom do you see them in the Regionals or the State Final Four. The higher level games seem to be dominated by the "Spirit of the Rules" guys.

In this case, if you look at "advantage/disadvantage", the VISITING team may have been put at a disadvantage by allowing the home team to have their "Blackout" crowd get more into the game. But, the visiting coach was OK with it -- perhaps, the two teams had even agreed to change roles when they met for a second time later in the season.

In my experience, the guys who continue to move up are NOT the guys who show up their experienced partners (Option A definitely would do that). Guys who continue to move up are also typically NOT guys who want to show everyone in the crowd that they know every single rule in the Rules Book LITERALLY. If a player tragically dies in a car accident on a Wednesday and a parent of one of the players sews a small patch with the fallen player's number on it, that patch is illegal. YOU KNOW the penalty for this. What are YOU going to do?

High School sports are to be fun for the participants and fun for the students. Such an event ("Blackout") likely made the game more fun for all.

From what I have witnessed, if you want to be doing games at the Regional and State levels (and, perhaps, beyond that), I would suggest you inform the referee in your game. If he or she chooses to do nothing, that is his/her choice.

I would mention the situation to your assignor at some point to get his/her view on how to handle the situation in the future. If you want to continually move up, you tyically have to have the help of a number of folks -- ADs, assignors, fellow referees and coaches. It has been my experience that going out of one's way to look for trouble generally is not the best way to get there. There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Isn't your state the one where the team was penalized for wearing illegal jerseys in the State Semi-final game? Didn't they claim that they had worn them all year and no official had said anything to them? Didn't Marty Hickman give an interview in which he essentially said, "too bad, penalize them, the officials need to do their job"?

Well, now we know who one of those officials was who didn't say anything about the illegal jerseys all year. I'll also wager that you didn't get to work at the State Tournament.

Out here, if you want to work come tournament time, then you had better do things by the book.

It's a 'bridge too far' trying to connect illegal jerseys with wearing away jerseys agreed upon by both schools prior to the game. As an above poster mentioned, are you penalizing a coach for being two inches out of the coaching box?

And the amount you care to wager? Christmas is right around the corner and I could use the extra change.

FYI , officials who didn't say anything regarding illegal jerseys worked the state final.

That said, I do enforce illegal jersey rules and also home and away color rule but not in this circumstance.

What's your position on lower level HS games in inner city schools( of which we have many in the Chicago area) that may have uniform issues due to lack of funding?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

We have several referees in Central Ohio who call EVERYTHING by the book -- literally, by the book. We have several other referees who follow the "Spirit of the Rules", but not necessarily EVERYTHING by the book.

It has been my experience as a coach and referee that the EVERYTHING by the book guys hit a glass ceiling well before the State Tournament level (they get Sectional and District games, but seldom do you see them in the Regionals or the State Final Four. The higher level games seem to be dominated by the "Spirit of the Rules" guys.

In this case, if you look at "advantage/disadvantage", the VISITING team may have been put at a disadvantage by allowing the home team to have their "Blackout" crowd get more into the game. But, the visiting coach was OK with it -- perhaps, the two teams had even agreed to change roles when they met for a second time later in the season.

In my experience, the guys who continue to move up are NOT the guys who show up their experienced partners (Option A definitely would do that). Guys who continue to move up are also typically NOT guys who want to show everyone in the crowd that they know every single rule in the Rules Book LITERALLY. If a player tragically dies in a car accident on a Wednesday and a parent of one of the players sews a small patch with the fallen player's number on it, that patch is illegal. YOU KNOW the penalty for this. What are YOU going to do?

High School sports are to be fun for the participants and fun for the students. Such an event ("Blackout") likely made the game more fun for all.

From what I have witnessed, if you want to be doing games at the Regional and State levels (and, perhaps, beyond that), I would suggest you inform the referee in your game. If he or she chooses to do nothing, that is his/her choice.

I would mention the situation to your assignor at some point to get his/her view on how to handle the situation in the future. If you want to continually move up, you tyically have to have the help of a number of folks -- ADs, assignors, fellow referees and coaches. It has been my experience that going out of one's way to look for trouble generally is not the best way to get there. There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

Well said.

Spirit of the rules= common sense

I have friend who is a Big Ten coach(football) and likes to use the acronym 'CTA'

Can't Teach Awareness

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fullor30

And the amount you care to wager? Christmas is right around the corner and I could use the extra change.

By "State Tournament" Nevada means what we would call "State Finals."

FYI , officials who didn't say anything regarding illegal jerseys worked the state final.

I suspect it would be different this year.

What's your position on lower level HS games in inner city schools( of which we have many in the Chicago area) that may have uniform issues due to funding?

The uniform rule specifically does not apply to lower level games in IL.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Isn't your state the one where the team was penalized for wearing illegal jerseys in the State Semi-final game? Didn't they claim that they had worn them all year and no official had said anything to them? Didn't Marty Hickman give an interview in which he essentially said, "too bad, penalize them, the officials need to do their job"?

Well, now we know who one of those officials was who didn't say anything about the illegal jerseys all year. I'll also wager that you didn't get to work at the State Tournament.

Out here, if you want to work come tournament time, then you had better do things by the book.

It's a 'bridge too far' trying to connect illegal jerseys with wearing away jerseys agreed upon by both schools prior to the game. As an above poster mentioned, are you penalizing a coach for being two inches out of the coaching box?

And the amount you care to wager? Christmas is right around the corner and I could use the extra change.

FYI , officials who didn't say anything regarding illegal jerseys worked the state final.

That said, I do enforce illegal jersey rules and also home and away color rule but not in this circumstance.

What's your position on lower level HS games in inner city schools( of which we have many in the Chicago area) that may have uniform issues do to funding?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fullor30

It's a 'bridge too far' trying to connect illegal jerseys with wearing away jerseys agreed upon by both schools prior to the game. As an above poster mentioned, are you penalizing a coach for being two inches out of the coaching box?

...

What if one team was wearing illegal jerseys but the other team's HC "agreed" that it was alright? What if both teams are wearing illegal jerseys but both HC's "cleared it" with each other?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

By "State Tournament" Nevada means what we would call "State Finals."



I suspect it would be different this year.



The uniform rule specifically does not apply to lower level games in IL.

1) Nevada likes to deal in semantics, which I can appreciate, let's let Nevada say what he means.

2) Agreed.

3) I'm aware of that. Leading to what his State does out there.

[tomegun]

So did you work the state finals last year? Bob is right - out here in Nevada, working the state tournament means the games between the final four teams in every class.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tomegun

So did you work the state finals last year? Bob is right - out here in Nevada, working the state tournament means the games between the final four teams in every class.

No, I did not work the state finals. The question was state tournament which is different in Illinois.

Bob is always right!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by fullor30

No, I did not work the State finals. The question was State tournament which is different in Illinois.

Bob is always right!

OK, Nevada said state tournament and after reading Bob's post I asked about state finals so we are talking about the same thing.

I guess the only question that remains is how you are sending Nevada his money - credit card, paypal, check or money order?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tomegun

OK, Nevada said state tournament and after reading Bob's post I asked about state finals so we are talking about the same thing.

I guess the only question that remains is how you are sending Nevada his money - credit card, paypal, check or money order?

I'll send him his money after I receive mine. I work the state tournament, that was the question asked. Small, untraceable bills please. And since he was refering to the Illinois State tournament, I'm going to say I win!

Curious, how many officials in Nevada( the state, not the poster)?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

Thanks. I've realized this and I'm still forming my opinions and philosophies which is why I threw the situation out there, so I could hear the advice and feedback and reasoning that seasoned guys on here could provide me. So I appreciate the help and insight from all of you! Thanks.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What if one team was wearing illegal jerseys but the other team's HC "agreed" that it was alright? What if both teams are wearing illegal jerseys but both HC's "cleared it" with each other?

No and no as you posed it.

Regarding the particular event that was agreed upon for blackout night in OP, I'd stay mum, unless my R wanted to enforce it. It's just my philosophy to be more of a spirit of the rule official. I have no problem with anyone enforcing the rules.



Can you imagine a cancer awareness night and pink uniforms are worn(hopefully a girls game!) and coaches say they cleared it with the state, yet I demand to see documentation?

Funny thing is I typically do everything by the book or at least try to. From my experience, there are exceptions from time to time.

I enjoy different philosophies and opinions here as it tends hopefully to make us all better officials and I learn from everyone.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fullor30

...


Can you imagine a cancer awareness night and pink uniforms are worn(hopefully a girls game!) and coaches say they cleared it with the state, yet I demand to see documentation?

...

The Virginia High School League addresses this every year in the mandatory state clinics. As long as both coaches are aware and approve there is no problem. This includes the use of pink basketballs (which I have never seen).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The uniform rule specifically does not apply to lower level games in IL.

I'm glad that IL agrees. Per the NFHS, the rule for the home team to wear white does not apply to non-varsity games. They wrote that in the comments section the year that the rule change took effect. It appears that our friend is not aware of this.

Originally Posted by tomegun

So did you work the state finals last year? Bob is right - out here in Nevada, working the state tournament means the games between the final four teams in every class.

Yes, I meant the final weekend, which is what we call the State Tournament. In NV, this is the last location where games are played and as tomegun writes includes only four teams in each gender and classification.
The other post-season games obviously feed into determining a State Champion, but we call them Regionals. I believe that other states have names such as Sectionals and Super-Sectionals.

Originally Posted by fullor30

Curious, how many officials in Nevada( the state, not the poster)?

There are about 150 basketball officials in my area. There are close to 350 where tomegun is. There is another small association on the eastern side of the state with maybe 35 officials.