aggressive block out
 

Just finished my first boys JV game of the year. All went well, but I have a question.

On most of the three point shots put up by one team, the defending team would turn around, reach back with one hand to find the shooter, and then aggressively block out the shooter. Sometimes it was so quick that they would step under the airborne shooter, but most of the time they would catch the shooter just after landing.

It was generally too mild for a whistle, and it had clearly been coached. It made me wonder if it is an intimidation technique- make the shooter think about the landing instead of the shot.

Anybody else seen this?

Was there . . .
 

. . . displacement? Sounds like it

If they're undercutting the shooter, it sure sounds like a foul. They're likely coached to do it until they get called. "Agressive box-out" is generally a euphamism for pushing.

Not really- more like a sudden stop as soon as the shooter hits the floor. More disconcerting than displacement.

This might just be good basketball, unless they are a tad fast and they get under the shooter. Either way it is tough to call.

Anytime you have players regularly undercutting an opposing player -- even if "mild" -- you regularly have a foul, in my opinion. Did the shooters regularly end up back further from the basket than when they landed? If so, this could likely be a displacement foul by the defense.

As a coach, we worked extremely hard on boxing out -- not, boxing out hard, but rather working hard to box out on every shot. In all my years of coaching (well over 25), I rarely ever had a player penalized for "boxing out." However, opposing players (and our players) could regularly get away with contact from the back on rebounds (frequently called "over the back" by parents and coaches). Therefore, a good solid box out was critical to our success.

Based on your description, you seem to have noticed behavior that, while taught, quite possibly was not within the spirit of the rules. While there may be a fine line in this case. My guess is that a team was permitted to get away with getting very physical on rebounds without penalty. But, in fairness, I was not there.

The defense does not get to "box out" an airborne shooter. That's a foul. Every time.

As BITS notes, don't let opponents make contact with that airborne shooter. That player is in a vulnerable position until returning to the floor and needs to have his/her safety looked out for by the officials. There can be some contact after the player ceases to be airborne without it being a foul, but there has been an emphasis on protecting airborne players from unnecessary contact over the past few years at all levels of basketball.

As has been drilled into my head many times, and you are hearing here - ALWAYS protect/stay with your airborne shooter! Don't let them be undercut - they are at great risk.

Yes and I have called fouls on this many times. I have even called fouls after the airborne shooter comes back to the floor.

Peace

We (as a crew) had three of them on Monday night.

Thanks guys- I think I needed some positive reinforcement to make this call.

I called only one last night. I probably should have had two or three. My partner didn't call any and he was the R, so I followed his lead a little. I'll be a little stronger next time.

I'll echo. Protect airborne shooters. If you call it early they'll learn. Or as Hank Nichols used to say, "call the foul, the players will adjust."

Now that it looks like everyone agrees, this foul needs to be called let me tell you this story.

A regular partner of mine was doing a BV scrimmage last week and had this very call. He watched the shooter down, the block-out displaced and he called the foul. The 3-pointer was good and the team got the ball back for a throw-in.

After reporting the foul, the offended coach and host of the scrimmage said, "you better not call that in a varsity game." :eek:

Apparently all coaches don't agree with us. Wait, I already knew that. ;)

Nope, not everyone agrees with what you just wrote as that is not at all the sentiment that BITS and I expressed in are posts. We specifically talked about the contact occurring while the player was still an airborne shooter. I even wrote that some contact can be acceptable AFTER the player has returned to the floor without being a foul.
The play that you described in your story does not involve an airborne shooter being fouled. It is completely different. The players and coaches accept protecting the AIRBORNE shooter from him being undercut and awarding one FT on made goals, they generally don't accept fouls being called against players who have already returned to the floor for minor contact resulting in the goal counting and the team getting the ball back for a throw-in, unless the contact is egregious and knocks the player into the third row.
The coach was absolutely right in his comment about how the varsity game is generally called, and your partner needs to learn the distinction.

Once the jump ball is over, it doesn't matter who is R and U (except for certain circumstances). Make the correct call even if your P is not. Maybe you making the call with give him the "testicular fortitude" (insert picture of a certain squirrel here) to make the right call.

Not only do they undercut the shooter, but sometimes they will extend their arms around each side of the shooter basically boxing them in. If the shooter even attempts to move around them, I got a hold.

You make the calls and 1 of 2 things will happen. Either they will stop or they will foul out. Choice is theirs.

Mregor

Why not simply use your voice and inform the player to "knock it off" and that "we won't have that tonight"?

Slightly Off Topic, But I'm Dying to Ask ???
 

Here in The Constitution State, the act of positioning one's self such that they are between the basket, and another player, so as to increase the probability that they will gain possession of a rebound, is called boxing out.

Yet, as in the title of this thread, I hear people from other parts of the country use the term blocking out to mean the same thing. Is this a local thing, or a regional thing?

To me "boxing out" means putting a body on someone, not just obtaining a superior position on the floor.

I know one thing about the term "blocking out". (along with posting up) More than one coach thinks it gives his player a license to bulldoze.

Body goes flying. Whistle. Coach: WHAT?? He was just blocking out!!

I used the term "box out" for a long time. About 15 - 20 years ago, a varsity coach that I assisted used the term "block out" for the same act as "boxing out."

While some of the posters here have implied something sinister or illegal, it is simply the act of getting/staying between the basket (and eventually, the ball) and the opponent. Generally defensive players "box out", but offensive players can "box out" if they are able to get inside position -- frequently when the defense is playing a zone defense.

Coach, our comments regarding blocking out were meant to be rather tongue in cheek. Whatever it's called in your locale, the concept as you present it (and as it is executed 99% of the time) is obviously legal. But we've all seen situations where an overly aggressive box out displaces the opponent by several feet, or knocks him to the ground, or puts him into the third row. And sometimes the coach will respond to the foul call with a heartfelt claim that, "He was just boxing out."

I don't think anyone meant to imply any aspect of this is sinister. I believe they meant to imply that the coach's response is completely idiotic.

When this happens in my games, usually in lower level games, the coach has blown all credibility with me. And if the coach's delivery is aggressive, his leash for the rest of the night can be measured in microns.

What you describe here is simple displacement, of course. This is not a "box out", but rather a push to gain more space to secure a rebound. Since MANY referees do not call this very frequently, coaches have taught their players to displace as a habit.

What I quite clearly described was "an overly aggressive box out displaces the opponent by several feet, or knocks him to the ground, or puts him into the third row." If you wish to label that "simple displacement," then by all means do so. But if we're picturing the same activity, your sense of scale is calibrated very differently from mine.

Had three of these in a row on the same girl once; we called them all and she walked off the court crying after injuring a shooter. It was almost surreal. We'd called her on it once, then did it again on the next shot putting them into the bonus. Offense rebounded the free throw and she did it to that shooter. It was not "simple" displacement, and this particular play is one that you just don't see missed by an official.

"Never Mind" (Emily Litella)
 

I thought that Tom Hanks' character in "League of Their Own" said there was "no crying in basketball"?

I have had the same situations on where is the shooter is located. ,Most of the time it is after the shooter comes down, and there is lot of displacement when the defender is trying to BOX out. I just call the foul right away, while going table side I now will go talk to the coach and tell him what is happening out on the floor,only if there is any questions. By the way people it is now 4 years side my loader escapdes, and I'm still using it,:D not sweating as much!!!