back court violation in bounds question
 

In seven years I've never had a question on this...but now I do.

Team A has possession in the front court. A1 makes an errant pass to A2 and the ball goes into the backcourt. A2 chases it down but doesn't touch it until it is just inside the free throw line (inside the lane). The officials put the ball in play on the sideline, just inside the free throw line (extended). B's coach wanted the ball out of bounds on the baseline, not the sideline.

I've always inbounded the ball on the side after a backcourt violation and after a quick look in the book, I can't find a clear answer.

What do you all say?

It's just like any other violation. The violation occurred when the ball was touched by A in the backcourt. Put the ball back in play at the nearest spot to the violation. If the nearest spot is the baseline, then so be it.

BillyMac probably has a myth about the throw-in for a backcourt violation always being at the division line. Right Billy?

According to the "rocket ship" diagram, a violation in the lane results in a base line throw-in.

Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with all of the previous answers, except note that the proper term is END LINE. ;)

I looked for "END LINE. ;)" in the rule book, and couldn't find it. Of course, I couldn't find base line either. :D

1-2: Sidelines, End Lines

Art. 1...The playing court shall be marked with sidelines, end lines and other lines as shown on the appended court diagram........

When describing the two lines that run perpendicular to the sidelines and running completely from one sideline to the other sideline approximately 4 feet behind the front of the backboard TO A REFEREE OR WHEN CONVERSING WITH A REFEREE use the term "end line."

When discussing these same two lines with a COACH (or most any other basketball person) using the term "baseline" is more common.

Know your audience and speak accordingly.

I've never had a coach say, "'End line'? What's that?"

"The Rocket Ship Diagram" © 2009, Back In The Saddle
 

It's not currently on the list, but I'll consider it.

I've never heard it called the "rocket ship" diagram before, but I like it.
"The Rocket Ship Diagram" © 2009, Back In The Saddle
I could have stolen it, but I didn't, so be sure that I get my 10%.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/...70756e11_m.jpg

Designated Throw In Spots ...
 

sseltser: I've considered it, and have decided to add it to The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list. Congratulations. You are now an official member of the mythbusters. I will soon be sending you your badge, and your secret decoder ring.

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/73ad1170ffb738fe

How does this sound guys? Any mistakes? Does this cover most designated throwin spots?

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation. After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, i.e., a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred. After an intentional foul, a player control foul, a team control foul, or a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul. After a technical foul, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds at the division line opposite the table.

There is an exception to this for a throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

Common Foul, No Bonus ???
 

Thanks for checking, but I'm not sure what you mean? Remember, this statement refers to a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect. A common foul is a personal foul which is neither flagrant nor intentional nor committed against a player trying or tapping for a field goal nor a part of a double, simultaneous or multiple foul. Example, please.

This is not correct: the point of interruption can be a free throw or an AP arrow throw-in, as per 4-36.

Or perhaps you meant 'e.g.' instead of 'i.e.'...

I assume he means that if team A commits a foul while a try is in the air, if the try is successful, team B's throw-in is from anywhere on the end line.

Please Keep Em Coming ...
 

mbyron: Thanks. Notice that I stated "some" correctable errors, because I only wanted to concentrate on designated spots in this section of the list. I did make one minor change, in red, based on your input. How's this?

After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, that is, a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.

You Can't Fool All Of The People, All Of The Time ...
 

You mean a common foul against an opponent of a player committed by a teammate of a player in the act of shooting a ball, a ball that is in the air when the foul occurs, that eventually goes in the basket? Wow. Good catch sseltser, and just another ref. You guys are sharp. Thanks.

Since I just want to concentrate on designated spots in this section of the list, how's this change, in red:

After an intentional foul, a player control foul, a team control foul, or most common fouls before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul.

Or if A has a throw-in from anywhere on the endline and B commits a foul during the throw-in such that the succeeding throw-in will be on the endline, then team A retains the right to throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

But BillyMac, I think that your change should fix it. (Or maybe I just opened a can of worms by thinking you already had this as a misunderstood rule.)

Sure. Just send me your bank account information and I'll transfer the money. I'm already set up for that as I have a side business involving transferring disputed funds out of Nigeria.

You should get some or most of 10%.

Still not correct. You might have a double T just before a free throw, for example, in which case the POI is the free throw.

Or you could have an IW, a double personal or simultaneous foul during a try, in which case the POI is an AP throw in.

What exactly are you trying to simplify?

Keep It Simple Stupid ...
 

You're right. Some rules can't be simplified enough to be understood by coaches, players, and fans, which is the main purpose of the The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list. I've revised the new section, again (below), to only include sseltser's original myth, that all backcourt violations are put back into play at the division line. Thanks.

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

Assuming the try is not successful, you are correct.

Billy, it seems you're simply trying to correct the misconception about the spot of backcourt violation. If that's your myth, then you're correction is much simpler. The rest of that stuff isn't really correcting a myth.

As an "old-time" official (back to the 80s), I believe this isn't a myth (as in something that was never true but has taken on an aura of truth because people simply keep repeating it) but rather something that at one time WAS true and has since been changed. I distinctly recall several situations back in the 80s when throw-ins were administered either at the division line (other than if the violation was near the division line or in the case of a T or starting a period) or the free-throw line extended (I think that free-thrown violations were administrered from the free-throw line extended for the longest time until about the early 90s).

What I used to see happen back then was old-time officials would simply refuse to go along with the new rules (back then, officials organizations didn't have as much sway over their officials, at least in the case of my organizations) and so the old rules were continued until enough people made a stink and everyone finally moved on.

On the one hand, I have always found some of the rule changes and mechanics changes a bit of a pain in the butt and often failed to see the real need for them, but as they say, "resistance is futile" LOL. And sometimes, the rule changes do make sense (and make for a better game) although one change that I do NOT like is the new one with respect to trail administration of a free-throw from the table side of the court instead of opposite the table side.

This one particularly bugs me, not so much because of the need to now be close to the coach (I am fine having that "under the radar" chat with a coach after a foul call) but rather because it takes the trail official away from being able to see the bench clearly and be aware of what is happening when players are entering the court or reporting. The lead has enough to do at the end line to administer the free throw and this mechanic change means that the official has to look away at times (NEVER a good thing to do in a heated basketball game) in order to be able to see what is going on.

This is a GREAT mechanic for 3-person crews because there is another official who can look AT the table area, but in 2-person crews, I think this will cause more problems than it solves. Then again, I could be wrong.

In an earlier officiating life (some time in the mid to late 80's), I clearly recall free throw violations resulting in a throw-in at the free throw line extended.

Can You Hear Barbra Singing In The Background ???
 

If the ball went in and the violation was by the offense on the last free throw.

I'm An "Older-Time" Official ...
 

I go back to 1979 and the throwin spot was always nearest the backcourt violation. Before 1979? Ask Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. He know rules back to 1891. Really. Ask him.

In the ancient times, for violations by the free-throw shooting team and for violations where the ball goes through the basket immediately following the violation, i.e., A1 commits a traveling violation while shooting the ball and the ball goes through the basket, the penatly throw-in was a designated throw-in by the non-offending team on the sideline where the free throw line extended intersects the sideline in the non-offending team's backcourt. This rule was changed sometime in the 1980's.

MTD, Sr.