Do you start calling tighter? - Page 2

pizanno · #16 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 01, 2002, 04:25pm

Sometimes, you'll get an ugly game that can't be helped.

Keep blowin' those fouls...nothing makes a crew look bad than bodies on the floor or unchecked rough-play.

In my experience, some kids don't play honest defense until they have 4 fouls...

Mike Burns · #17 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 01, 2002, 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by pizanno
...In my experience, some kids don't play honest defense until they have 4 fouls...

So you were the guy who was always reffing my HS games!

Mike (hey that was 101st post! Wooo hooo!)

theboys · #18 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 10:02am

Hey, Chuck.

Coaches know when the game is getting away from us - that's when we start blaming the refs!

Todd Springer · #19 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 02:00pm

Just a thought. Early in the game, if both post players are going at it, this might be a good time for a double foul. That usually sends a good message. Some supervisors don't like double fouls, but others think there are good times to use them.

pizanno · #20 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 02:45pm

Todd:

I don't disagree with the philopsophy, but I'd caution against having a double fouls too early in the game. I don't think the players will adjust with only 1 foul on them, and the coach may think you're overreacting early in the game.

I'll try to talk to the players first. If it's obvious to me that two players want to be tuff guys and rough house each other rather than play ball, I'll ring up the defensive player, tell them BOTH "to clean it up" or that "you'll get the same call on that side" (just once, but directly). If they don't adjust, then be quick to catch the other guy/gal on the other side.

They'll get the message sooner or later. If not, then a double foul is less likely to require an explaination("coach, i told them to clean it up")

...sometimes it takes 3 fouls to get them to play honest defense.

Jurassic Referee · #21 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by pizanno
I'll try to talk to the players first. If it's obvious to me that two players want to be tuff guys and rough house each other rather than play ball, I'll ring up the defensive player, tell them BOTH "to clean it up" or that "you'll get the same call on that side" (just once, but directly).[/B]

Why would you pick on one player,and let the other player get away with a similar act on the same play?

Hardly seems fair to me!

pizanno · #22 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by pizanno
I'll try to talk to the players first. If it's obvious to me that two players want to be tuff guys and rough house each other rather than play ball, I'll ring up the defensive player, tell them BOTH "to clean it up" or that "you'll get the same call on that side" (just once, but directly).

Why would you pick on one player,and let the other player get away with a similar act on the same play?

Hardly seems fair to me! [/B]

I should have clarified that I'm thinking primarily about post play, where most of the rough housing starts.

I beleive that in ALMOST all double foul situations, one one foul occurs before the other. The problem is:
1) either we missed the first one; OR
2) we actually saw it, but didn't think it merited a call. It's not until the 2nd player reacts that we are forced(?) to call the DF.

I'm calling it on the defense because, all other things being equal, I beleive it is imcumbent on the defense to maintain legal guarding position. If I didn't have an offense foul, then why should I have a double foul?

But you'd be sure I'll have a quick one on the other side of the same nature.

Remember, these two players don't want to play ball, they would rather fight for position with their 6 foot, 150 lb bodies banging together like two love-sick, cross-eyed giraffes.

Jurassic Referee · #23 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 03:49pm

Pizanno,I really can't agree with you on that one.If two fouls are committed on the same play,I think you should either call 'em both,or ignore 'em and talk to both players.I personally don't like the idea of picking one player out and letting the other player get away with basically the same act.The same type of double-foul might not happen at the other end-and thus the offensive team has come out of this situation with an advantage that they don't really deserve.JMO.

Camron Rust · #24 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Pizanno,I really can't agree with you on that one.If two fouls are committed on the same play,I think you should either call 'em both,or ignore 'em and talk to both players.I personally don't like the idea of picking one player out and letting the other player get away with basically the same act.The same type of double-foul might not happen at the other end-and thus the offensive team has come out of this situation with an advantage that they don't really deserve.JMO.

My preference is to call a foul each one as they are on defense. A5 gets a foul. When we are next on the other end, I make sure the b5 gets one when they do the same thing. Then have a word with them that you'll keep calling that way if they keep banging that way.

Jurassic Referee · #25 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

My preference is to call a foul each one as they are on defense. A5 gets a foul. When we are next on the other end, I make sure the b5 gets one when they do the same thing. Then have a word with them that you'll keep calling that way if they keep banging that way. [/B][/QUOTE]Camron,do you call it first on the player who initiated the contact,or the player that responded to the contact?Or always on the offensive player first?Or do you just pick one of them out?It's a little hard to tell from your post.Just wondering.

pizanno · #26 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 04:17pm

Cameron understands the sitch....it's worked for me, as well.

JR: Beleive me, I called my share of DFs (even a false multiple!). I do agree that it's a judgement call.

Here's a very common sitch regarding rough play that is what I think the thread was addressing:

A5 & B5 are post players that won't be seeing the ball alot because both teams are run & gun and outside shooting-minded. They are mainly in there as rebounders and bangers.

On the first two possesions, each time shot is taken, they crash the boards, locking each other's arms together fighting for rebounding position. But since the ball either goes in, or hasn't come to them, you haven't made a call as there has been no advantage gained. Neither A5 or B5 has fallen on the floor, or even shown any negative emotion.

There have been no whistles and you haven't had an opportunity to talk to the players.

On the third possesion, a shot goes up, A5 & B5 lock each other up again, and the ball is coming to them. They both have equal position and equal chance at the ball. Now they fall.

On whom do you call the foul on? Double foul?

If DF, and they don't adjust, what is your next call going to be? Another DF?

...just another pebble on the basketball of life!

Jurassic Referee · #27 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 02, 2002, 04:33pm

Pizano,if it works for you and Camron,I certainly ain't gonna knock either of you for handling it that way.I just personally feel more comfortable handling it the other way.As long as the game is kept under control and nobody ends up getting an advantage,I guess it doesn't really matter how you get there.

Dan_ref · #28 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 03, 2002, 11:00am

I'm voting with JR on this one. I have no problem calling a
double foul, even in the first minute, it it's warranted.
Yes, I'll probably try & talk them out of it first, but I
really don't like this "one for you up here, one for you down there" type of thing. The double foul is quick,
painless and gets your point across, and you don't have to
go looking for something to even it up on the other end.