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-   -   What would you have said? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55177-what-would-you-have-said.html)

just another ref Thu Oct 29, 2009 01:18am
My speech on the subject:

As a rule, if you make that call, from there, it makes us look bad, even if you're right. If you make that call, from there and you're wrong, it is truly inexcusable.

So pick your spot carefully, and if you feel you must make that call from there, do so, but be sure that you're right.

Rufus Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:51pm
I had something this happen last year. There was a fast break and I was new L (2 whistle). Player goes up for a succesful shot with a defender on them but not making contact. I hear a whistle, look up, and see my partner standing at the midcourt line. He reports the foul, we shoot 1, and move on with life.

We talked afterward and I let him know that it wasn't a bad thing that he called the foul (maybe he saw something I didn't and I'm not going to get picky about coverage on a fast break like that), but the optics of calling it from the midcourt stripe perhaps weren't the best. He was very receptive and agreed to try and be more aware of court positioning in the future.

I think how you approach someone about this type of conversation depends on what their attitude is about receiving feedback. If you've got a know-it-all (be it D1 or sub-varsity) they may not be as open as someone who realizes that feedback on this type of situation is valuable and helps you be a better official.

refnrev Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 633250)
I have a similar story: Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too slow and fails to call things that I would. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break he was lead and the play was about 4 feet from him. I think he was straightlined or too close because there was a lot of contact on the shot but he passed on the foul. The play opened up for me so I had to whistle and report the foul. I shot him a "you're welcome" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to work for better angles and to not let the game get out of hand. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?
Bob,
Point well taken, however, this isn't an isolated event but a pattern most likely caused by inexperience and lack of knowledge. Are you suggesting to just let the problem perpetuate itself?

JRutledge Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by refnrev (Post 633929)
Bob,
Point well taken, however, this isn't an isolated event but a pattern most likely caused by inexperience and lack of knowledge. Are you suggesting to just let the problem perpetuate itself?
This is where I disagree with Bob big time. I think these situations need to be addressed if this is a constant situation. If it happens once I can live with this. But if this happens often, I cannot just let it go. Because we are obviously are not on the same page or your partner is not trusting your judgment. But as I said, sometimes these things are not easily discussed or accepted by all parties. It is very possible that the discussion might get a little contentious or defensive.

Peace

refnrev Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:49am
Or at best very uncomfortable because we aren't that good of friends or frequent partners. I just hate to see a less experienced guy make the same mistakes a lot. The AD and I were actaully talking about this a little the other night. He's now a girls HS coach, former men's college coach. and is also a licensed official. He agrees my assessment of the quick whistle and not quite distinguishing "incidental contact" from a foul.

bob jenkins Sat Oct 31, 2009 05:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 633933)
This is where I disagree with Bob big time. I think these situations need to be addressed if this is a constant situation.
Nothing in the OP indicated it was a constant situation. My only point is for everyone who thinks someone else calls the game too tight, there's someone else who thinks that a game is being called too loose.

(It's like George Carlin's commentary on the idiot and maniac drivers).

JRutledge Sat Oct 31, 2009 07:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 633986)
Nothing in the OP indicated it was a constant situation. My only point is for everyone who thinks someone else calls the game too tight, there's someone else who thinks that a game is being called too loose.

(It's like George Carlin's commentary on the idiot and maniac drivers).
It is not about "tight" or "loose" calls when you are calling something in someone's area.

Peace

Dave Dow Sun Nov 01, 2009 08:04pm
Most of the time these situations can be talked about during a pre game. Make sure to talk about court coverages, and make sure to tell him that he "MUST TRUST HIS PARTNERS":rolleyes:!!

TheOracle Mon Nov 02, 2009 08:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by refnrev (Post 633202)
Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too quick and calls things that I would let pass. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break I was lead and the play was about 4 feet from me. There was some contact on the shot but I passed on the foul because I saw no lost advantage on the part of the shooter. To me a foul would be ticky-tack at best. All at once I hear a whistle from the back and T turns to the table and reports the foul. I shot him a "this was my area and my call" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to let that call go when it is right beside your partner and to make good eye contact during the game. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?
If you think the guy will get better from the feedback, tell him what you perceive in detail, and let him know that you are trying to help him, not ripping him. It's your opinion, and most others probably share it, so he needs to help himself if he wants to.

If he won't get better from the feedback, don't say anything and get on with life. Hopefully, you'll move upwards, and he won't, but this happens at every level in some form!

Johnny Ringo Tue Nov 03, 2009 08:28pm
I simply ask: What did you see there? And then go from there ...

Adam Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 634452)
I simply ask: What did you see there? And then go from there ...
I will say this, from the perspective of having dialed long distance only to get the wrong number, this is the easiest way to start it. And the best.

My response is to always to answer humbly, recognizing that merely by asking the question, the other official is telling me I may have kicked it.


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