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All_Heart Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:53am

Sitting beyond coaching box line
 
A True/False question in our local state rules test:

Quote:

Coaches and players are not allowed to sit beyond the coaching box line nearest the division line.
The answer is listed as True. If you know of the location of this in the rule book please let me know b/c I can't find anything to back this up. The answer in my opinion should be false b/c there is nothing stating that the team bench has to be located no further then the 28 foot line.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:10pm

4-13-3 says the bench area is the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.

The coaching box extends from the 28' mark towards the endline.

BillyMac Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:32pm

Connecticut Prep School Coaching Boxes Expand ...
 
This year Connecticut prep schools, who have always used a hybrid version of NFHS, and NCAA, rules, with differences for boys, and girls, will, for the first time, have a coaching box that extends from the twenty-eight foot mark all the way down to the endline. I can't wait, as the lead, table side, to have a coach shake my hand on a good call way down in the corner. It was bad enough when they shook my hand on a good call, as the trial, table side. Now they've got a shot at me at both the trail, and at the lead. I'd better start carrying some hand sanitizer in my pants pocket.

Ref Ump Welsch Sun Oct 25, 2009 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 632731)
This year Connecticut prep schools, who have always used a hybrid version of NFHS, and NCAA, rules, with differences for boys, and girls, will, for the first time, have a coaching box that extends from the twenty-eight foot mark all the way down to the endline. I can't wait, as the lead, table side, to have a coach shake my hand on a good call way down in the corner. It was bad enough when they shook my hand on a good call, as the trial, table side. Now they've got a shot at me at both the trail, and at the lead. I'd better start carrying some hand sanitizer in my pants pocket.

Not to hijack, but would you believe one of the nursing professors where I work suggests I carry a small bottle of it while I'm working basketball? Her rationale: I'm shaking several hands before the game, and handling that ball some during the game, i.e. throw-in administration and free-throw administration. I was sorely tempted to ask if she was planning on running around at our college's games, squirting that hand sanitizer on the officials' hands.

BillyMac Sun Oct 25, 2009 02:39pm

"Would You Believe ..." (Secret Agent #86, Maxwell Smart) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 632738)
Would you believe one of the nursing professors where I work suggests I carry a small bottle of it while I'm working basketball?

Would you believe that there's an official on my local board that does exactly that? Seriously. It's traditional, in these parts, especially in girls games, that during the pregame introduction of starters, that each starter, after being introduced, runs over the shake the hands of the officials, and then runs over to shake the hand of the opposing head coach. Obviously, there's a whole lotta shaking going on (apologies to Jerry Lee Lewis). He keeps a bottle of hand sanitizer in his warmup jacket pocket, and before the National Anthem, uses it on his hands. In any case, more players, and more officials, are using the fist bump, instead of the hand shake, these days, shorter, less contact, less chance of getting "Cooties".

On a more serious note, our state high school athletics governing body has just published guidelines regarding what to do if games must be postponed due to the H1N1 Swine Influenza. I won't bore you with all the details, but one thing that jumped out at me right away is that in order to facilitate the makeup of games postponed due to Swine Influenza, they would allow makeup games to be played on Sundays. They have never, ever, allowed games to be played on Sundays, for any reason, in the past, so this is a big deal here in the Land of Steady Habits, where some "Blue Laws" are still on the books. We've already had two elementary schools, and one high school, in Connecticut, close down for a few days to interrupt the cycle of contamination, and there are three college campuses, in the state, that are also having problems with student, and teacher, absenteeism due to the Swine Influenza. Hold onto your hand sanitizer and use it if you got it.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 25, 2009 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 632738)
Not to hijack, but would you believe one of the nursing professors where I work suggests I carry a small bottle of it while I'm working basketball? Her rationale: I'm shaking several hands before the game, and handling that ball some during the game, i.e. throw-in administration and free-throw administration. I was sorely tempted to ask if she was planning on running around at our college's games, squirting that hand sanitizer on the officials' hands.

Nothing at all wrong that suggestion. I have a bottle that's as small as a trial shampoo bottle. I haven't taken it on the floor but I'm considering it. I'll definitely have it in the locker room. Also, I'll be bumping fists when possible instead of shaking hands.

BillyMac Sun Oct 25, 2009 04:20pm

When In Rome ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 632742)
I'll be bumping fists when possible instead of shaking hands.

Hey. If it's good enough for these two, then it's good enough for basketball officials.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/20..._bump_0605.jpg

All_Heart Sun Oct 25, 2009 04:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 632727)
[/SIZE]4-13-3 says the bench area is the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.

[/SIZE] The coaching box extends from the 28' mark towards the endline.

[/SIZE]

I'm assuming you meant 1-13-3 and it is referring to the time-out area not the team bench. The team bench location is only a recommendation.[/SIZE]
1-13-3.......The time-out area shall be the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.
[/SIZE]
Based on 1.13.1 (below) I was thinking that the team bench could be right next to the scorer's table and there is nothing we could do about it. Which would insinuate to me that "Coaches and players are allowed to sit beyond the coaching box line nearest the division line." The coach just wouldn't be allowed to utilize the coaching box (if there is one) based on 1.13.2.[/SIZE]
TEAM BENCH LOCATION
1.13.1 SITUATION: Upon arrival on the court, the visiting team is advised its team bench is located on the right side of the scorer’s and timer’s table. This location means the visiting team’s substitutes will have to go considerably further than the home team to reach the reporting area. The visiting coach complains to the referee. RULING: The referee has no authority to move the location of either bench, unless it involves player safety. Game or home management is responsible for designating the location of the team benches. The visiting coach must accept this designation, unless player safety is involved. Obviously, it is intended that the benches be on the floor-level seats or bleachers and that the team benches be approximately the same distance from the table whenever possible. The referee should report the unusual bench location to the state association office.
[/SIZE]

Mark Padgett Sun Oct 25, 2009 05:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by All_Heart (Post 632750)

I'm assuming you meant 1-13-3 and it is referring to the time-out area not the team bench. The team bench location is only a recommendation.
1-13-3.......The time-out area shall be the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.
Based on 1.13.1 (below) I was thinking that the team bench could be right next to the scorer's table and there is nothing we could do about it. Which would insinuate to me that "Coaches and players are allowed to sit beyond the coaching box line nearest the division line." The coach just wouldn't be allowed to utilize the coaching box (if there is one) based on 1.13.2.

<style>BODY { FONT-FAMILY:Calibri; FONT-SIZE:10pt } P { FONT-FAMILY:Calibri; FONT-SIZE:10pt } DIV { FONT-FAMILY:Calibri; FONT-SIZE:10pt } TD { FONT-FAMILY:Calibri; FONT-SIZE:10pt } </style><basefont face="Calibri" size="2">
TEAM BENCH LOCATION
1.13.1 SITUATION: Upon arrival on the court, the visiting team is advised its team bench is located on the right side of the scorerís and timerís table. This location means the visiting teamís substitutes will have to go considerably further than the home team to reach the reporting area. The visiting coach complains to the referee. RULING: The referee has no authority to move the location of either bench, unless it involves player safety. Game or home management is responsible for designating the location of the team benches. The visiting coach must accept this designation, unless player safety is involved. Obviously, it is intended that the benches be on the floor-level seats or bleachers and that the team benches be approximately the same distance from the table whenever possible. The referee should report the unusual bench location to the state association office.

I had trouble reading your post. Could you make your font a little bigger?

All_Heart Sun Oct 25, 2009 06:02pm

Really it looks like the same size on my computer as the previous posts. I will try and do something with it.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 25, 2009 07:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 632748)
Hey. If it's good enough for these two, then it's good enough for basketball officials.

I can assure you that is not my inspiration.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 25, 2009 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by All_Heart (Post 632750)

I'm assuming you meant 1-13-3 and it is referring to the time-out area not the team bench. The team bench location is only a recommendation.

I copied and pasted from last year's rulebook which refers to the team bench area. I don't have a problem with the answer since the coach is required to sit in the coaching box if he's going to use it.

I'd suggest you contact your state officie if you wish to dispute the answer key.

Loudwhistle Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:28pm

Mark Warning!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 632752)
I had trouble reading your post. Could you make your font a little bigger?

Warning to all new reffs reading this forum: Make sure you don't have a mouthful of coffee or some other beverage while reading Mark's posts otherwise you'll have a sticky monitor or laptop!! Thanks for all the good laughs Mark!! You had a good one last week too!

referee99 Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:45am

FWIW, upon entering the visual confines.
 
My SOP is to make sure that there are no chairs for either bench closer to the division line that the 28' mark. More often than not, these chairs were set up by JV or freshman players tasked with doing so, and they just got them open and in the vicinity. Often there are 2 or 3 chairs 'north' of the line and I will ask that they be moved, or will just do it myself.

jdmara Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 632738)
Not to hijack, but would you believe one of the nursing professors where I work suggests I carry a small bottle of it while I'm working basketball? Her rationale: I'm shaking several hands before the game, and handling that ball some during the game, i.e. throw-in administration and free-throw administration. I was sorely tempted to ask if she was planning on running around at our college's games, squirting that hand sanitizer on the officials' hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 632739)
Would you believe that there's an official on my local board that does exactly that? Seriously. It's traditional, in these parts, especially in girls games, that during the pregame introduction of starters, that each starter, after being introduced, runs over the shake the hands of the officials, and then runs over to shake the hand of the opposing head coach. Obviously, there's a whole lotta shaking going on (apologies to Jerry Lee Lewis). He keeps a bottle of hand sanitizer in his warmup jacket pocket, and before the National Anthem, uses it on his hands. In any case, more players, and more officials, are using the fist bump, instead of the hand shake, these days, shorter, less contact, less chance of getting "Cooties".

On a more serious note, our state high school athletics governing body has just published guidelines regarding what to do if games must be postponed due to the H1N1 Swine Influenza. I won't bore you with all the details, but one thing that jumped out at me right away is that in order to facilitate the makeup of games postponed due to Swine Influenza, they would allow makeup games to be played on Sundays. They have never, ever, allowed games to be played on Sundays, for any reason, in the past, so this is a big deal here in the Land of Steady Habits, where some "Blue Laws" are still on the books. We've already had two elementary schools, and one high school, in Connecticut, close down for a few days to interrupt the cycle of contamination, and there are three college campuses, in the state, that are also having problems with student, and teacher, absenteeism due to the Swine Influenza. Hold onto your hand sanitizer and use it if you got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 632742)
Nothing at all wrong that suggestion. I have a bottle that's as small as a trial shampoo bottle. I haven't taken it on the floor but I'm considering it. I'll definitely have it in the locker room. Also, I'll be bumping fists when possible instead of shaking hands.

Last winter I came down with a cold during the season and could not find a substitute for my games as our association was stretched as thin as possible due to weather cancellations. For a few weeks I carried out a small bottle of hand sanitizer to the score table before the game. During time outs (and I was close to the table), I would wander over to "discuss something with the scorebook" (in reality I was using my hand sanitizer). I don't think it would be a bad thing but it's the problem solver.

-Josh


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