Heres a question.....I was told recently it would help me to lose the moustache before the upcoming season. The reason was that coaches dont like facial hair on white guys. Black guys they dont mind but white guys they do.

This is not a racial question but I am just wondering if anyone had any comments on this subject. Anyone else out there have an assignor talk about this and perhaps elaborate?

Now, in the end, its what a 3 month season? I think I can handle no stache for 3 months.

Larks - (I was also told to drop 25...a lil tougher than shaving! Damn beer and wings are doing me in)

I don't know about mustache, but I told a referee to lose the spike heels once - he was scuffing up the floor.

I know you're just the messenger but this might be the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. But I'll admit that the "no 'stache or beard" thing is something I've heard...urban myth? legend? unwritten code? who knows but I know a couple of succesful refs who wear a mustache. If an assignor tells you he would hire you if you took off the mustache then do it...otherwise don't bother.

Quote:

Larks - (I was also told to drop 25...a lil tougher than shaving! Damn beer and wings are doing me in)

Drop the 25 lbs, keep the mustache, let us know how it goes!

;)

LOL! So would he be the good example or the horrible warning? :)

At a "success" seminar I once attended, we were told, "No one ever looked at a man and said, 'He would sure look better with a beard/mustache.' But they will sometimes look at a man and say, 'He would sure look better if he lost the beard/mustache.'"

How many people are turned off by beards/mustaches? I don't know, but I really don't think there are that many. Of course, I wore a beard and mustache for close to ten years, and I took it off when I started doing some public speaking. I want to look as good as possible to as many people as possible. I decided the beard wasn't worth the potential liability.

As for the 25 pounds...how big is your stache? Maybe you could kill two birds with one stone--or razor!

Well, unfortunately the stache wont give me much of a headstart on the 25. Maybe switching to small beers rather than tubs. I hear there are less calories in a small!

I believe the reason may be psychological. I've read and been told to loose any facial hair before going in for a job interview. The reason: Other people have a difficult time trusting a person with facial hair. I don't recall where I heard or read this, but people with facial hair are percieved to be hiding something. (more than just their face or upper lip) ;)

If officiating, I think it is importan to begin with as much trust as possible. Appearance is just part of that package.

If you were told to lose the stache,best you lose it.When you are no longer a "Veteran in Training",but accepted as a good,experienced official,it will probably become a non-issue at the HS level for you.College ideas may change by then,too.JMO!
Btw,it is a proven nutrional fact that wings 'n brownpop are good for you.Stay away from vegetables and milk.

Goatee.
 

I have had a goatee my entire career. I have never been told to remove it. I have never been told that I should get rid of it if I move up. The only indication that I see of getting rid of it, is when I get to the D1 level. All the African-American Officials I see at that level only have a mustache. I have never seen a goatee. So if I want to go to that level eventually or go to those camps, I might have to get rid of it. But I have never had a lower level college or my HS assignors ever tell me to remove it.

I think it is cultural that more African-Americans or people of color have facial hair. It is hard not to find a Black male that does not have at least a mustache. Of course there are many that do not have anything on their face, but much of my generation does.

Interesting question. ;)

In our association there has not been any directive for us to be clean shaven. Some of the officials in our assoc. have facial hair, most don't. I have heard that if you want to move above the HS level then it is best to go with the clean shaven look. Which makes sense, because you really don't see many of the TV guys with a beard.

That said, I went clean the first year and have worn a goat for the past two years (very short-two to three days growth). I would like to think that the coaches don't argue many calls with me any more because I have become a better official. But then again, the goat makes me look like I'm already angry about something and not going to take much crap. The stink eye has a lot more of an effect. :D

I try to smile a lot.

Re: Goatee.
 

Uhmmm...ahhh, never mind.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/pc-crash.gif

Hey - does that go for women referees, too?

I am sure glad that my assignor doesn't require us to wear beards or moustaches!!!!! I was on a three week vacation and decided not to shave!!! Still couldn't grow either and well at my age above 30 +

AK ref SE

One psychological/cultural basis I've heard as an explaination for shaving is that it gives the appearance that the male is younger than he really is (or, at least, doesn't make him look older than he is).

While it may not be legal, I'm sure there are supervisors out there who see two refs of equal ability but different ages and pick the younger one because he is younger (some also pick the older for the "experienced" look).

Just tossing some psych fodder out there . . .

Obviously, this guy had never heard of Abe Lincoln!?!?!?

FWIW, I personally think most men would look better with a beard and mustache. But I'm not an assignor, so in this discussion, my opinion doesn't count for much.

As to women, well with sleeves in our shirts and long pants, it's just not much of an issue -- thank goodness!

But that was in the 1860s
 

Yeah but look at what time "Honest Abe" was alive. Things have changed since then. But maybe they are changing back. I see all kinds of people with facial hair.

Peace

WELCOME BACK, JUULIE!!!!!!!! :D

And Glasses, Too
 

At an association meeting a couple of years ago, one of my assigners mentioned that it would be a good idea to be clean-shaven and without glasses, if possible. He said you'll never see that in writing, but just mentioned it as a "word to the wise."

<i> At an association meeting a couple of years ago, one of my assigners mentioned that it would be a good idea to be
clean-shaven and without glasses, if possible. He said you'll never see that in writing, but just mentioned it as a "word to the wise."</i>

This sounds like one of those things that an assignor (who doesn't have anything better to worry about) says at a camp and then it spreads like wildfire without anyone challenging it. I think that "all things in moderation" would probably be a more accurate statement. For what it's worth, I just looked at the list of the top 5 refs in our assoc and here's the tally:

1) Mustache
2) Glasses
3) Clean shaven
4) Goatee
5) Mustache

We do have a guy that has a beard that looks like he just climbed out of the hills. He's an excellent ref but rated around 22 in our association. My personal belief is that his appearance is deemed "unprofessional" by some and it hurts him on his ratings.

Z

Rambling non basketball discussion follows...

There seems to have been a great shift in this country regarding facial hair sometime in the early part of this century. There were several leaders and statesmen who had very full beards in the 19th and early 20th century. They were respected and viewed as honest, hardworking, etc. I don't know for sure what triggered the change, but the respect of facial hair largely fallen out of favor and has never returned.

There have been no bearded (or even mustached) Presidents in about 100 years while there were several before that (perhaps a majority). Was this related to the advent of TV or reasonable quality photos in print media? Before 1900 or so, people usually only read or heard about politicians and such. After it, they have been able to see the person.

Or was it the invention of a good quality razor that allowed clean shaves without having to be extremely careful?

The psychology that I have heard is that people like to see the expressions on people's faces. Facial hair can obscure some of the finer elements of facial expressions. Seeing these expressions is believed to influence (rightly or wrongly) the perception of honesty.

There are few areas, however, that seem to remain with the older values that would seem to contradict the current common views. It seems that judges often are bearded, while lawyers are not.

This seems to apply to basketball/officiating in a way that is similar to the views of society in general. Personally, I feel it is unneccessary and unjustified, but it is they way it is.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jul 29th, 2002 at 01:09 PM]

Re: And Glasses, Too
 

Hey, if our Assignment Sec. wants to pay for the laser surgery I'll have it done. Until that time, I'll happily work the lower level games because I only need my glasses to see.

I was told that when I hadn't reached the college level yet, that it would be a good idea to get contact lenses if you can, and also get clean shaven. I guess it is some unwritten rule, but it has worked for me so far.

<i>I was told that when I hadn't reached the college level yet, that it would be a good idea to get contact lenses if you can, and also get clean shaven. I guess it is some unwritten rule, but it has worked for me so far.</I>

Where are you going to go shopping when you are told that women's underwear are a must too? :-)

Z

Actually,some associations specify black thongs as part of their dress code.

<i> Actually,some associations specify black thongs as part of their dress code.</i>

Where do I apply? I think I could be quite an <i>asss</i>et.

Z

You're hired.Most assuredly,we'd need an assistant to assemble the assets.

Btw,do you have a picture of yourself in your black officials thong?
If not,do you wanna buy one? :eek:

Actually, wouldn't we wear striped thongs? :p

Geeze,Mark,you always wear black in case your pants split.
On second thought,if you were wearing a black thong when your pants split,it'd probably look like stripes anyway.:D

Hey, some of us are in shape so that we don't have to worry about pants splitting.

I am not part of that group. :D

The drop 25, i agree with. that is a major poe w/ assignors. as to the mustache, i think the main thing is that you get the dam* call right, and they will be fine!!

Still have to be believable.
 

But you still have to be believable. You cannot get a call right and think everything is all good, if they do not believe you as a person. That is why the weight and facial hair or lack there of is important to many assignors.

But that is just my opinion.

Peace

<i> But you still have to be believable. You cannot get a call right and think everything is all good, if they do not believe you as a person. That is why the weight and facial hair or lack there of is important to many assignors.</i>

I would hope these assignors who are worried about facial hair aren't also using factors in their "believability scale" like race, gender, and other factors that are out of an official's control.

Define believability for me. I've worked with guys who are overweight, and I must admit that I wondered about their ability <i> briefly.</i> All it takes is a couple trips up and down the floor to know that they are quite competent.

Z

My experiences
 

Well they are. Officials are hired all the time because of race and gender, or at least that is a major factor to why they are hired. Girl's and Women's Basketball Officials are hired all the time based on gender. Mostly Black Conferences or teams with many mostly Black teams will have mostly or many Black officials. Ever heard of the MEAC or the SWAC. I can almost guarantee that you could probably count on one had the amount of white officials in those conferences.

Define believability for me.

I cannot define it for you, every person has their own definition. You might have worked with a guy or two that is overweight and had no problem. But unfortunately it is not you that has to believe whether an official is believeable or not. The coaches, ADs and yes sometimes the fans have a bigger say in this. If a guy walks out onto a court and weighs 300 pounds, there is not much that guy is going to be able to overcome. He might get every call right, but the first call that a coach does not like, things might get out of hand. Maybe not so much at the HS level, but coaches have a much bigger say as the level gets higher. College coaches send tape complaints all the time. And it is not very uncommon for officials to have to explain calls that they make at the college level. BTW, I am not talking D1 either. That happens at D3 all the time.

This happens all the time in my experience. If you are a certain gender, race or weight, you will get hired more likely than those not fitting a certain discription.

<i>This happens all the time in my experience. If you are a certain gender, race or weight, you will get hired more likely than those not fitting a certain discription.</i>

I agree with you. It's too bad isn't it? Didn't some famous civil rights leader say that we should be judged not by the color of our skin (or the hair on our face?), but rather by our character? It's almost taboo to talk about though isn't it?

Z

True but that is the way it is.
 

Well that is life. We will always be judged by what we look like, the way we dress and the color of our skin. You cannot worry about that. Just work on the things you can and worry about the things you can control. Life is too short.

Peace

Let me add to this Z.
 

I treat officiating like a business. Everything I do has a reason. When I go to a game that is why I always wear professional clothes or look very nice. I always want to portray that I take this game or this situation very seriously. I feel when you do that, the people that see you take this very seriously. To me it is the same impression you want to give before a job interview or a business meeting. If you go in a T-shirt and ripped up all jeans, you might suggest things you do not want to about your abilities. To me this is where the believablity begins. Then when you get out on the court you do not start off with the coaches thinking you are not believable. But you still have to make calls and handle yourself in a professional way. You just might not get the change, just like a job interview if you do not do the proper things before you officiate.

Peace