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-   -   what is a grasp? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/54866-what-grasp.html)

rsl Fri Oct 02, 2009 04:18pm
what is a grasp?
 
This came up at a pickup game today. 10-3-3 prohibits grasping the basket or dunking in warm-ups. What about just touching the rim or slapping the backboard?

What are the limits?

Just for the record, I'm the one with the gym key and I was trying to keep my buddies from bending the rim. They were definitely grasping.

10-3-3
ART. 3 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction,
dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game
or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item
applies to all team members.

Ch1town Fri Oct 02, 2009 04:31pm
Since when did rules apply to pick-up games :D

Mark Padgett Fri Oct 02, 2009 04:31pm
As the father of two girls who were once both teenagers, I don't think there's a difference between grasping and touching. :D

OK, seriously (sort of), there definitely is a difference. If their fingers are curled around any part of the rim (and I'm one of those guys who thinks this rule applies to the net as well) and they exert pressure in any direction, it's a grasp.

derwil Fri Oct 02, 2009 05:08pm
If you see anyone getting CLOSE to the rim during warm ups....ease over to them and tell the to stay away from it. Or better, ask the coach if he is comfortable starting the game with a T for grasping the rim as little Johnny has been getting really close to it. Either one usually stops it immediately.

rsl Fri Oct 02, 2009 05:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 628573)
... (and I'm one of those guys who thinks this rule applies to the net as well) ...
The rule says "basket", and basket is defined earlier in the rules as basket ring together with net, so I think the rule does apply to net.

And I have daughters too- Now you have me worried just thinking about it!

constable Sun Oct 04, 2009 06:50am
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?

bob jenkins Sun Oct 04, 2009 06:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 628713)
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?
Nope.

Went to work an "alumni game" yesterday. One of the players dunked and hung at one end of the gym. Broke the basket support (the whole support / backboard started swinging wildly.

The alums had to play half-court.

constable Sun Oct 04, 2009 08:14am
so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.


With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.

eyezen Sun Oct 04, 2009 08:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 628713)
Anyone else think that the prohibition on dunking in the warm up is one of the dumbest rules there is?
I for one don't. Yes the rule may have come from a bygone era of rigid rims, but the antics and gamesmanship that it prevents is more than satisfactory for keeping the rule.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 04, 2009 09:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsl (Post 628569)
This came up at a pickup game today. 10-3-3 prohibits grasping the basket or dunking in warm-ups. What about just touching the rim or slapping the backboard?

What are the limits?

Just for the record, I'm the one with the gym key and I was trying to keep my buddies from bending the rim. They were definitely grasping.

10-3-3
ART. 3 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction,
dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game
or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item
applies to all team members.
What does it matter what the rules are? :confused:

Tell the guys if they want to play, don't TOUCH the rim. STAY OFF.

Your responsibility has nothing to do with the rules.

BktBallRef Sun Oct 04, 2009 09:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 628719)
so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.


With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.
Schools are laying off teachers because of budget cuts and you want to allow dunking in pre-game, where there's potential to do hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage. It's unecessary and expensive when one is broken.

You couldn't be more wrong.

rsl Sun Oct 04, 2009 09:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 628722)
What does it matter what the rules are? :confused:

Tell the guys if they want to play, don't TOUCH the rim. STAY OFF.

Your responsibility has nothing to do with the rules.
Absolutely. But after I stopped them, we talked rules for the rest of the warm-up and it got me thinking.

The no dunk in warm-up is absolutely a good rule. Especially for sub-varsity or rec games in auxiliary gyms where they don't always have new rims and the players can't jump as high as they think they can.

BillyMac Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:11am
Injuries ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 628714)
Nope. Went to work an "alumni game" yesterday. One of the players dunked and hung at one end of the gym. Broke the basket support.
Let's not forget the injury factor, players who would never, or could never, try to dunk in a game, trying to dunk during warmups. An injury waiting to happen.

JRutledge Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 628719)
so then ban hanging on the rim in the warm up like we do in the game.


With breakaway rims, you really need to throw it down hard and hang on the rim for a while before you do any damage to it.

Just going up and dunking the ball will not break the rim.
Then you have players trying to do things they cannot do. And for the record about 3 years ago a kid died from my state (playing in another state during the summer) trying to dunk and he fell on his head and died. I do not think this should be legal if for no other reason players that would never be able to dunk in a real game, try to touch, hang, and dunk on the ring when they cannot get up there in the first place.

Peace

constable Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:26am
How is it different from dunking in a game? If there is such a significant risk to players when dunking, then why allow it during the game?

Is Federation the only rule set which prohibits dunking during the warm up? You can do it in FIBA. What are the NCAA rules?


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