NF Swinging Elbows Signal

Mark Dexter · #23 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 28, 2002, 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Self

Quote:

*A1 tries to punch B1, but misses (he's off balance)
*B1 retaliates and punches A1.
*B1 is charged with a flagrant personal foul, A1 takes 2 FT's, and A gets the ball at the point of the foul.

As far as the above, the swing and miss would be a flagrant personal and as stated before by Jurassic and I agreed the immediate swing afterwards would be also.

WHOA! TIME OUT!!!

There's no contact, but you're going to call a personal?

Think this over.

4-19-1: "A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live."

If you have no contact, you cannot have a personal foul!

However, you must note that the converse (please excuse me if I'm mixing up my logic terms), a foul which involves contact with an opponent while the ball is live is a personal foul, is not necessarily true. Definitions only work one way unless specified otherwise - this is not one of those exceptions.

Look at it this way:
(A) Texas is a state.
(B) All states are Texas.
[No wise-a$$ remarks from the Texans, please!

]
You can have a state that is not Texas (Virginia, for example) but it does not invalidate statement A.