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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 09:22am
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Of all the great points Nevada makes (I've never so completely agreed with any post on this board), I want to emphasize #8.

By making the officials have the reports available at each contest, the state is essentially waiving any privacy rights the officials may have. Frankly, if the organized officials in PA do not fight this, they are as negligent as the MA IAABO board.

Are the coaches required to have their background reports available at each contest site? Obviously, the home team's coaches would, but what about the visitors? What about neutral sites? What restrictions are in place for who can view these reports that are "available." In other words, to whom are they available?

The crimes listed are at least marginally related (although I would argue that anything that isn't very specifically a child-sex charge is not applicable for an official), but what happens when someone reads such a report and finds an official was charged with domestic abuse, but never convicted, or they learn he was convicted of shop-lifting when he was 22?

I think the worst thing about background checks is my own point #9.

It's a false sense of security. All the background checks in the world won't even get in the way of little Johnny being someone's first victim. Parental and administrative vigilance will, however. There is no reason to ever have students alone with officials, and we sure as hell shouldn't be changing in the wrestling locker room while the wrestlers are weighing in. But by forcing officials to pay for background checks and fingerprints, Mr. Snuffy gets to feel as if his elected officials are doing something to protect Jr. Snuffy.

Meanwhile, the previously uncaught (you know, the smart ones) offenders, the offenders smart enough to skirt the system, and the ones who have only thought about it are able to slip through and have unnecessarily unfettered access to these kids.
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 09:49am
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Something tells me that people who are interested in harming kids aren't going to go through all the trouble of being a sports official in order to do so.

Missouri doesn't require fingerprinting, and they don't require you to take anything to contests to "prove your innocence" like PA does. You just have to submit to a background check (I think it's just a highway patrol criminal record check) when you register online.
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 10:05am
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Can someone tell me what a background check will show that's both relevant and unavailable on a sex-offender registry?
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 11:10am
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Has anyone ever heard of an abuse case involving a referee? By the nature of our work, our every action is scrutinized by two coaches and numerous fans. We don't have much opportunity to misbehave.

The only exception is when administrators put us compromising situations, i.e., have us dress in inappropriate locations.

Background checks would be better spent on coaches, who have close and continuing contact with players.
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 11:39am
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Originally Posted by rsl View Post
Background checks would be better spent on coaches, who have close and continuing contact with players.
Our local kids rec league performs background checks on all coaches, assistant coaches and "parent helpers". We do this every year, even for those who have been with us for a long time. You just never know.

BTW - we don't do anything like this for officials. We have about 40 officials and we pretty much know all of them. About 15 or so are HS kids.

Also BTW - one of our Board members is an attorney and he has his firm run these for us at their cost, which is under $5 each. It's well worth it. In the past five years, we were able to "weed out" two guys who had a history of a crime against a child. We run about 250 of these a year and we wind up not allowing about 2 or 3 per year to coach. Usually, if someone has a record, they won't even apply, since the application makes them agree to a background check.
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 12:32pm
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Originally Posted by rsl View Post
Has anyone ever heard of an abuse case involving a referee? By the nature of our work, our every action is scrutinized by two coaches and numerous fans. We don't have much opportunity to misbehave.

The only exception is when administrators put us compromising situations, i.e., have us dress in inappropriate locations.

Background checks would be better spent on coaches, who have close and continuing contact with players.
I have heard of cases where someone that was a referee got in trouble. I have never heard of a case where someone was in trouble based on doing their job specifically. It has usually been off the court/field where this has taken place. That being said, I still think background checks are necessary. You do not want people that have certain histories around kids or young adults. Or at least be able to identify those individuals so no one is shocked when things happen.

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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 01:47pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I have heard of cases where someone that was a referee got in trouble. I have never heard of a case where someone was in trouble based on doing their job specifically. It has usually been off the court/field where this has taken place. That being said, I still think background checks are necessary. You do not want people that have certain histories around kids or young adults. Or at least be able to identify those individuals so no one is shocked when things happen.

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Other than the warm-fuzzy, what tangible benefit could there possibly be that cannot be gained from running them against registered sex-offender registries?
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Old Fri Aug 21, 2009, 02:08pm
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Other than the warm-fuzzy, what tangible benefit could there possibly be that cannot be gained from running them against registered sex-offender registries?
I was not against it. I am just talking about the likelihood of an official being an actual violator in the current job. Of course anyone can be a violator easily outside of this profession. It really is not that big of a deal if you ask me. Most offenders are still people a child would know, not some stranger.

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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 02:28am
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Originally Posted by rsl View Post
Has anyone ever heard of an abuse case involving a referee? By the nature of our work, our every action is scrutinized by two coaches and numerous fans. We don't have much opportunity to misbehave.

The only exception is when administrators put us compromising situations, i.e., have us dress in inappropriate locations.
Yes, I have...I think the guy is still in jail....and even if the administrators don't put the official in a compromising situation, the official that desires to do so can find one.
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 09:30am
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Yes, I have...I think the guy is still in jail....and even if the administrators don't put the official in a compromising situation, the official that desires to do so can find one.
Agreed. And after listening to all the arguments given here, I think I might support background checks in our association- cheap ones at least. We don't get paid enough to justify expensive ones.

What was described in Pennsylvania seems way over the top.
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 09:58am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Yes, I have...I think the guy is still in jail....and even if the administrators don't put the official in a compromising situation, the official that desires to do so can find one.
Was he a prior offender?
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 10:30am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Was he a prior offender?
I don't know.
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 12:56pm
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Yes, I have...I think the guy is still in jail....and even if the administrators don't put the official in a compromising situation, the official that desires to do so can find one.
They can?

I cannot imagine how - I get to a game site, I go to a private locker room, I change, I officiate the game, I return to a private locker room.

When do I ever have access to kids alone?

This is a solution without a problem, and considering it is a solution that

A. Costs money
B. Takes time
C. Is prone to error, and
D. Most importantly is a blatant violation of basic privacy rights

it is utterly ridiculous.

We do background checks where I officiate, and I have nothing to hide. I am not willing to take a stand on principle in this case, but it does bother me. I don't like the idea of someone poking around in my private life without very good reason, and the fevered imagination of some busy body who thinks officials have any access to children is not a good reason.

I want statistics. I want verifiable, objective data defining the scope of the problem this "solution" is fixing.

Anyone have any?
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 01:54pm
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They can?

I cannot imagine how - I get to a game site, I go to a private locker room, I change, I officiate the game, I return to a private locker room.

When do I ever have access to kids alone?
Really? It wouldn't be that hard...unless someone is watching you every moment to ensure you don't leave that private locker room and escorts you around the facility never taking their eyes off of you when you're not on the court. Remeber, you're the upstanding one...the problem ones will find a way.
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Originally Posted by Berkut View Post

This is a solution without a problem, and considering it is a solution that

A. Costs money
I'm willing to pay $3-5 once every three years as we do here in Oregon for the additional check that any contractor (referees, electricians, computer technician, roofer, etc.) working in the school is at least not a known risk. That fact that it is so cheap and that it might stop just 1-2 incidents is worth it. Referees might be among those with the least opportunity but to be fair, they apply the requirements to all contractors and employees.
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B. Takes time
All of about 5 seconds when I register...and only once every three years.
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Originally Posted by Berkut View Post
C. Is prone to error, and
And this is a reason not to take a precaution? Certainly some risks make be missed but missing 2% of the problems is no reason to not catch the other 98% (percentages made up just for illustration).
Anyone that is flagged as a risk should be reviewed for accuracy before taking action.
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D. Most importantly is a blatant violation of basic privacy rights
There is no invasion of privacy. You are not forced to officate for the school system. You have the right to not work around the kids. An invasion of privacy would be if they did this without you having the option to decline the assignments.
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it is utterly ridiculous.

We do background checks where I officiate, and I have nothing to hide. I am not willing to take a stand on principle in this case, but it does bother me. I don't like the idea of someone poking around in my private life without very good reason, and the fevered imagination of some busy body who thinks officials have any access to children is not a good reason.

I want statistics. I want verifiable, objective data defining the scope of the problem this "solution" is fixing.

Anyone have any?
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 01:57pm.
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Old Tue Aug 25, 2009, 03:04am
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Has anyone ever heard of an abuse case involving a referee? By the nature of our work, our every action is scrutinized by two coaches and numerous fans. We don't have much opportunity to misbehave.

The only exception is when administrators put us compromising situations, i.e., have us dress in inappropriate locations.

Background checks would be better spent on coaches, who have close and continuing contact with players.
There have been a couple of documented cases of a game official engaging in inappropriate conduct with a student while on school grounds. However, the number is far fewer than those incidents involving coaches and teachers. I would even guess that the number of cases involving a random person walking in off the street are higher than those against HS sports officials.
Of course, someone thinks that this is a big problem and most people are jumping on the bandwagon and drinking their kool-aid. For those of us who take the time to think about the issue and question the core assumptions, concluding that it is really just a big PR job is more reasonable.

Last edited by Nevadaref; Thu Aug 27, 2009 at 05:29am.
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