New to Board-Weird Game Tonight
 

Hello everyone, I am new to the board and have been officiating basketball for 7 years (Im on 24). I have done lots of rec (elementary-semi-pro ball), College scouting camps in the summer, and tournaments.

So tonight I had a crazy game to finish off my night of 3 games. Early in the game I whacked a kid after I called a foul for using profanity regarding my call. The coach hated the initial foul call and technical but he hated every call against him all season (literally, every call).

Later in the game. 20 seconds left, the coach who hated every call yells at me to stop the game there is an issue. Did not do it until we had a dead ball. I went over to him and asked what the problem was. He told me that the other team was playing with 2 #11's and there should be a technical. Now keep in mind that this is a boys and girls club league and they all use the same pinnies (blue and white, no other color) so the pinnies could have been double issued without anyone knowing. We had other teams use two of the same number and we had no issue all season. Tonight was the last night of the regular season and this coach all of a sudden notices with 15 seconds left and he is down by 4. I told him I understood his argument but that needs to be dealt with the league. I am not going to make an assumption on something that could have happened because of the league. If there were more than 2 colors used in the league that is different.

At the end of the game, the player who I whacked earlier, turned and looked at me as I walked to the scorers table and said, "You F*ing Suck." This kid is about 16 and also works for this boys and girls club (great role model, huh). I walked away and went to a league official who was watching and I requested that the kid should be given a 1-game suspension.

I then had 3 parents corner me as I tried to leave the gym and they pulled the whole I am writing a letter about you...blah..blah...blah. Then the coach who lost came over and yelled in my face that his kid cant be suspended because the game was over and I told him its not over until I leave the confines of the court. Then the parents are saying forget about it he was frustrated. Its unbelievable to see parents say that behavior like that is ok because its sports.

These parents said that I am sure that language like that happens in college and its let go. I have been on a D-1 college coaching staff and know that is not the case. I told the mother, my exact words: "Actually the first profanity out of a college players mouth is a technical and the coaches dont deal with that; especially if its directed towards an official." This parent was shocked and was speechless. She went home after that.

Basically I am putting all of this out there to see if anyone has been in this type of situation where you are approached by numerous people after the game as you are trying to leave. Me and my partner ended up waiting a good 10 minutes until the gym cleared and people left the building before we left.

Would love to hear your take on this. "Never stop learning (especially officiating)!"

My take...get certified, work in the real season only (except for camp) and leave the summer bull**** behind ya.

Oh I hear you. I make more money with rec ball than I would HS actually and I havnt got certified cause I go to a lot of college camps and am working my way up. Much rather do that than HS.

1. Learn to walk right by the parents after the game and not say a word to them. You made a huge mistake by engaging them in conversation. As you learned they have so many positive things to say to you following a game. ;)

2. I'm amazed that you think that you can get hired at the college level without any HS officiating experience. Perhaps that is the way that it works where you are. If so, good luck to you.

3. I would still recommend that you get HS certified.

4. If you are doing the rec leagues for the money, then be prepared to deal with the garbage that comes with the dough. My experience with rec leagues is that is what you are getting paid for.

5. Lastly, at 24 you are still very young. I would guess that is why the parents and kids think that they are able to address you like that. Perhaps they still see you as a youth. You will probably find that when you get some gray hairs, you will be treated differently, especially by the adults.

Just part of the learning/growing process....
 

It's just one game. You handled yourself fine.

As Nevada said, always try to avoid these types of situations by steering clear of unnecessary contact with players, coaches, parents, fans, etc. It’s one situation/game out of hundreds – heck, maybe it’s THEM and not YOU.

Continue to remain calm and professional. Try to walk away. Be the bigger person. Report it to the league and let them handle it. If they don’t handle it like you would like and/or support you, then you have to decide whether or not you want to work in that league anymore. Money is good, but is it worth the aggravation? Your call.

We’ve all had our share of bad situations. I have leagues I like better than others. Whether I choose to go back is my decision. Learn from it and move on.

Good luck.

Based on your description of your evening I would say you still have a lot to learn about officiating. I'm not talking about the inappropriate behavior and action of the players, coaches, and parents. I'm talking about how you described the evening. Especially the part where you requested that a player get suspended.

You need to get certified and really learn about the art and science of officiating.

You asked for feedback, so I'll offer my $.02.

It sounds like you let the coach get away with way too much yapping. If he's questioning every call all year, he got away with way too much. Stop that early, and you'll be surprised how the players respond. Maybe not this game, but the next one anyway.

Also, with the player spouting off after the game; calmly walk to the table and have the scorer record a technical foul on said player. He now has two for this game, and most likely, you do not have to request a suspension as it will be automatic (depending on league rules).

Where was the site manager during all this? There is no excuse for them to allow the parents and the coach to berate you like that after a game. This stuff can (and has) turn violent, so you need to just walk away, get in your car, and drive home. And I'd be on the phone with the assigner before I even got out of the parking lot. "Better site management or I'm not coming back."

Agreed. I've heard of officials going from HS to lower level pro ball but I've never heard of anyone going from rec league to anywhere. There's just no possible way you can be prepared for that jump.

I appreciate everyones comments, but I am not here to be told that what im doing is not possible. I have been a part of a college coaching staff and have attended numerous college recruiting camps (invite only) and have met a lot of people. Yes its rare but it happens.

I was always told its who you know, and thats helped me to this point.

I posted my situation to see others officials take on the situation and if they have encountered something similar. I appreciate the feedback from the few who have given points on the situation.

Easy slugger, they're just expressing surprise. As Nevada said, if it can be done, more power to you.

I would add surprise that you're making more money with these rec league games than you would high school games. Around here, rec leagues pay about 40% of what JV games pay.

Not that surprising.

On a per-hour basis, adult rec league pays way better for me than high school JV.

I wouldn't be surprised as nothing about the camp scene surprises me anymore :rolleyes:
Camped with an official who couldn't pass the HS test but that same official was picked up in a college conference... it's definitely about "who" one knows.

As you get more experience, you'll develop your own way to deal with these morons. Eventually, your attitude and responses will be a projection of your own personality.

Some officials just totally ignore these actions and just walk out without even acknowledging the comments, while others (like me) take great pleasure in giving back even more than we get, mostly in a sarcastic, and possibly even confrontational, manner. I'm not recommending you do that at all, but I am saying that how officials respond includes a very wide variety of actions. There's no one answer that works for everyone.

If I had to guess, I would think that the majority of officials try to ignore those people as much as possible. Personally, I don't think that's any fun at all. :D

What official who is on a "fast track" to college basketball says a coach has hated every call I've made all season? Who even thinks that way? After 7 years of officiating I wouldn't want my primary games to be of this caliber.

Hard to explain, but this whole thing just doesn't sound right. Ref'n exclusively in dysfunctional rec leagues is not a very good way to prepare for NCAA basketball. JMO

I know what it is, something I already adhered to but I heard it again in camp this summer. When you talk about basketball, talk like an official. Use officiating terms, talk about mechanics, discuss rules, talk about philosophies.

But to answering the following:

I don't wait. I walk to where I need to be (locker room/bleachers/locker room) and avoid eye contact. I make myself unapproachable.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. I don't know why anyone would even want to go straight from rec leagues to NCAA games.

dmbfan, you say you've been on a college coaching staff. What level and what did you do? At 24, I would be very surprised if you have been an actual assistant coach anywhere above the D3/NAIA level.

I just can't figure out why you wouldn't want to become high school certified and at least work varsity games for a few years before going into college games. Around here if you're just working rec games and aren't high school certified, you're not really taken seriously.

I was a graduate assistant coach for a D-1 Big East school. My duties included scouting of opponents, assisting with instruction (practice and in-game), travelling with the team, film exchange, etc.. I did that for 2 seasons.

Its not that I did not want to be HS certified but when I was in grad school (just graduated in May) my schedule did not allow me to attend meetings and classes because of my graduate schedule and travel schedule with the team.

Then try to at least get into JuCo. I know someone who was an athletic trainer at a Big East school. I know he worked intra-murals while in college. Don't know how much HS ball he did, but he would travel from NYC to Maryland to work JuCo ball. He's in the WNBA and D-League now.

If you're trying to by-pass HS ball (it can be done) then you need to spend a lot more time in formal camps and talking about on-court situations you encounter there. Leave all this Rec League drama behind when you leave the gym. Use it for $$$, but don't expect to learn much from it.

Thank you for the pointers there. I know the rec leagues do suck but I make good money and I know there is drama sometimes but every game I do I learn something and its a good place for me to improve my mechanics.

Now that you have the time
 

Now that school is over, and if you are serious here is the link to Central / North Jersey IAABO Board 33. At the bottom of this page is the email address of the gentleman who handles the cadet class.

[url=http://www.board33.org/]

Good luck

OK, good luck to you. Who you know might get you that first game, and it might even get you a year's worth of games, but after that, you're being evaluated (and complained about) by people you don't know.

And no assignor or supervisor of officials on God's green earth is going to put themselves on the line for someone who thinks they know it all but who lacks the abilities that can only be won through experience at increasingly competitive levels.

Go ahead. Fly high. Just understand that it's not all gliding.

Or, to quoth the great Earl Weaver: "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."

A few questions/points to ponder...

1. When you recommended the player be suspended, is this standard protocal for this league?

2. Who is the game management at these games? I've worked rec and even some travel league games where there is none and we are expected to be GM (fairly or unfairly). I find that leagues with visible and approachable GM are the ones I tend to take games from first and foremost.

3. Do things like this happen regularly during games in this league? If so, you may wish to drop this league from your list of leagues to work.

4. Do things like this happen regularly (or more than a few times a year) in games you work? I'm not asking this to say it is all your fault, heavens knows coaches, players, and parents can be absolute jerks a lot of the times and need to be dealt with, but think about IF it is happening more than it seems is appropriate in your games. Can YOU do you anything differently?

5. I have had a similar post game exchange with a player (5th grader!) and his dad, but I did what someone else suggested. I just recorded the technical with the table and the game was over, the dad came over after the game (I had another) and he hit the roof. I was young like you, probably about 25.

I called the assignor, this parent had called him first and filled his head with lies. My partner stuck by me (as did the rest of the people in the gym) and in the end the kid was punished for his actions (something in the area of 10 technicals during the season...again 5th grade!), the parent was suspended for the next game, and the league wrote new rules regarding behavior for parents, players, and coaches effective immediately.


The best advice I have for dealing with confrontational parents is what someone else here once told me. "Silence cannot be quoted." In the end, do what works for you and what is right for the situation. If sarcasm works, use it. If you need to be stern, do it. If you have to walk away, that is what you do. There is no fix-all.

I agree with other posters in that you should stay away from recommending suspensions. Penalize the actions, follow whatever documentation process the league has in place and let them make the decision.

Stay away from parents. They are biased observers. In this field half love our call and the other half hates it.... biased parties have difficulty seeing the reality... whether we got the play right. Nothing good can happen from the interaction.

If the team had 2 #11s, by rule it is a technical foul. Unless the rules specifically state to the contrary or provide an exception for this, call the T.... the coach who has been a pain is down 20, so no harm done. By not adjudicating the rules, you have opened yourself to objectivity and consistency claims... ie only enforcing the rules we choose to tonight.... we need to remember that our job is to "ensure the fairness of the contest" by enforcing the 'rules.'

In rec ball, I wouldn't call it. Varsity? Easy call.

So I'm doing a mens wreck league the other night & one player (who sweats a lot) soaked his shirt near the end of the 2nd half, so he took it off & went skins.

The opposing team went nuts (a couple of I ref too players on that team). "You know that's a T, call the game right ref."

Mind you, this demand is coming from a team with multiple #21s, wearing black, navy blue & royal blue jerseys :rolleyes:

Come on 11/30!!

Classic story Ch1town!

I had several occasions this yr in Rec Ball where the teams where "pennies" that got mixed up so teams have multiple same numbers. Most coaches try to put a "1" in front of the "2" or "3" with masking tape or medical tape to make them "12" and "13".....which eventually peels off when soaked through and then falls off.... and who has to police this up. Sure, me. Then where are we? Back where we started.

Once, after discussing with the coaches and table I was relegated to saying to the table when reporting something like: "Red, 3, Black, Hold." To identify the Red "#3" was the "black" player as opposed to the "white" #3......

Ain't Rec Leagues fun?

In the "dumb things from coaches" category, I was doing a rec league game with uniform problems, and a team had both a 0 and a 00. I informed the coach and his reply was

"What's wrong with that? 1 and 11 aren't the same number!"

Trouble was, he wasn't joking. He really didn't get it.

Jim Otto, Robert Parish ...
 

To some statistical computer programs, 0, and 00, are the same number.

Stupid computers.

SI.com - Photo Gallery - Best Athletes by Number: 00-31

SI.com - More Sports - The*best athletes by number - Thursday July 5, 2007 11:50AM

Im going to take your side on this one dmbfan. I guess just because I took a very similar road you are taking now. I worked hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of games of rec and low level AAU tournaments and even now at this point and time of my career I still go back and ref in the offseason and hope that I have some crazy, screwed up games! For the most part about 85-90% of the rec and AAU games I worked were non-competitive or I guess I should say they had no intensity about them, but I kept plugging away just trying to gain valuable experience. It never seemed to fail though that there would almost always be a screwed up game with a player, coach or fan or the fact that the game was too physical and on edge. This is when I truly learned!! And I attribute it to making me the official I am today. You can do all the HS "certified" games you want and all the college games you want, but I was getting one of those "crazy" games at LEAST once a weekend and you won't see that but maybe once in a season of college or HS ball. These games teach you game management and allow you to work on your communications whether it be with your partner(s), table crew and yes, even the coaches. It also teaches you how to control a game if your partner is very inexperienced, In other words it contributes to your "Crew Chief Mentality".

I believe as you get older and you have gained even more experience and had your "fill" of those crazy games that you will be like most on this forum and will tell people to give them up and work nothing but regular season, but those rec games in the summer are what I believe to be the true "training ground" and "baptism by fire" games. That being said though you still need to get your college and HS games in for the valued experience of not kicking a rule and the atmosphere that can come along with them. Those are different beasts in and of themselves, but learning how to manage the game and fine tuning your skills (the one none of the regular mundane fans notice) is the place for the rec league games.