im venting a little

[crew]

i worked a game tonite with a guy i have never met before in my life and for the life of me cant remember his name. any way we had a play(i'm trail he is lead) right in the gray area between us. it was a drive to the basket and a1 picked up his dribble, one step, and then b2 wraps him to prevent the layup. im in trail, whistle and voice that it is a shooting foul and at the same time he whistles and voices on the floor. no big deal, i come to him and say that he had picked up the ball and started his motion. he replies the foul was on the floor and thats what we are going with. i was stunned and wanted to punch him right in the face when he said that. i backed off and let him take the play. after the game i bring the play up because maybe he had a foul before the player picked up the ball. i explained what i saw and asked if he saw something else. he said that is exactly what happened but the reason it is not a shooting foul is because his arms were not like this(and puts his arms and hands in a set shot). i said ok, but he had already started his habitual motion to start a layup. nows the kicker--- he says your trying to embarass me, ive been reffing for 6 yrs(rec ball)and that will never be shooting foul! i got the urge to punch him in the face again and walked away. it was unbeleivable to talk to someone so closed minded, and so unwilling to hear a fellow official out. maybe i just didnt have any credibility with him and he thought i was a shlow shlum official doing rec ball.
disclaimer-i do not look down on rec ball, i think it is a great place to harness/practice skills needed for the regular season and will always do rec ball when possible.

[Marty Rogers]

Tony:
We all work with officials that have different abilities and personalities. Unfortunately, you were paired with the "know-it-all" type who is probably a lousy official because he refuses to learn. Bringing up the play and discussing it was a good idea, because you could both benefit from talking it over. Once you state your ruling, and he refuses to consider you are right, then just let it go. No use repeating yourself to a wall.

I know it is frustrating during a game when your partner is making wrong calls, blowing your line, or is arrogant and/or
rude to people, etc. When you strive to do things properly, it can get you down. Keep up your desire to learn and improve. Take what you can from good officials, and leave behind the negative stuff from bad ones. Especially dump the urge to "punch him in the face." This emotion shows he is getting the better of you (and you may actually do it someday).

[crew]

Originally posted by Marty Rogers
Tony:
We all work with officials that have different abilities and personalities. Unfortunately, you were paired with the "know-it-all" type who is probably a lousy official because he refuses to learn. Bringing up the play and discussing it was a good idea, because you could both benefit from talking it over. Once you state your ruling, and he refuses to consider you are right, then just let it go. No use repeating yourself to a wall.

I know it is frustrating during a game when your partner is making wrong calls, blowing your line, or is arrogant and/or
rude to people, etc. When you strive to do things properly, it can get you down. Keep up your desire to learn and improve. Take what you can from good officials, and leave behind the negative stuff from bad ones. Especially dump the urge to "punch him in the face." This emotion shows he is getting the better of you (and you may actually do it someday).

thanks marty,
"punch him in the face" is an expression i use when i'm upset, and do not mean it literally though.
i appreciate your guidance here.

[JRutledge]

I was doing a game recently at a HS Shootout. All the teams were varsity level teams some of the teams were the best in the state and surrounding areas. I only say this because we were doing 2 Man with very athletic and big kids. Well I did this game with an experienced official that had extensive playoff experience (I will leave it at that). I was the lead and I called a foul B that was guarding A another big kid. Well be was a bit taller than A and had his arm drapped over B, restricting A from moving to another position in the post. Well the ball was rather high and away from the post. I blow my whistle and signal the foul. Immediately my Tournament Experienced partner begins ranting an raving about how A was "holding his shorts, what did you expect him to do? You call the foul on B and A was holding him." Now that all might have been true but my thinking was, if all that happen why did he not call that himself? I just gave him a look and a smirk and went back to officiating the game.

I felt the exact same way as you did Tony. But I laughed it off, and when it comes to working with this individual again, I will pass. At least during the regular season. Life goes on and so will my career. I just remember the Serenity Prayer and move on.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by crew
he said that is exactly what happened but the reason it is not a shooting foul is because his arms were not like this(and puts his arms and hands in a set shot). i said ok, but he had already started his habitual motion to start a layup. nows the kicker--- he says your trying to embarass me, ive been reffing for 6 yrs(rec ball)and that will never be shooting foul!

I had just the opposite situation working with a guy from our neighboring state in a rec tournament. He called every foul that happened in the paint against a ball handler a shooting foul. It didn't matter if the kid was just standing there holding the ball. After the second call like that, I asked him what was going on and he said that all fouls against the ball handler in the paint were shooting fouls. I asked him if he was using a rule book from Mars, and he just shrugged. Man - it was tough explaining that to the coaches (who kept asking me), and I just told them to ask him instead, since it was his call. I know he got into some arguments with both coaches but, fortunately, there were no Ts.

Originally posted by crew
maybe i just didnt have any credibility with him and he thought i was a shlow shlum official doing rec ball.

OK, I give. What's a "shlow shlum" official?

[crew]

an official out just for the money and not caring about getting better?

[mick]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Well the ball was rather high and away from the post. I blow my whistle and signal the foul. Immediately my Tournament Experienced partner begins ranting an raving about how A was "holding his shorts, what did you expect him to do? You call the foul on B and A was holding him."

Rut,
Of course, there are different schools of thought on calling the "off-ball" foul. I probably would've tried to talk them "apart" first, and then I would've blown the Fox if they didn't respond to my "advice".
But, I guarantee, nobody would have seen or heard me "ranting and raving" at any partner on the floor.
mick

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mick

Rut,
Of course, there are different schools of thought on calling the "off-ball" foul. I probably would've tried to talk them "apart" first, and then I would've blown the Fox if they didn't respond to my "advice".
But, I guarantee, nobody would have seen or heard me "ranting and raving" at any partner on the floor.
mick

I didn't include this in the story, but I already had been doing this all game. And if he was not mugging him the way he was, it might have not been such an easy call. And basically B was preventing A from recieving a pass all together. Believe me, I was not very quick on the whistle. I had been warning all game about the post play. I was just taken back by the response of my partner more than anything. No matter what I called, he should not have been saying anything to me at that point. He did all of this with the players hearing him and the coaches. Kind of like showing me up. I could have been an a$$ and told him or said, "these teams are in my conferences not from the city," but I choose not to.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I didn't include this in the story, but I already had been doing this all game. And if he was not mugging him the way he was, it might have not been such an easy call. And basically B was preventing A from recieving a pass all together. Believe me, I was not very quick on the whistle. I had been warning all game about the post play. I was just taken back by the response of my partner more than anything. No matter what I called, he should not have been saying anything to me at that point. He did all of this with the players hearing him and the coaches. Kind of like showing me up. I could have been an a$$ and told him or said, "these teams are in my conferences not from the city," but I choose not to.

Peace

Rut,
Well, Ida done the same thing.
Your partner was just wrong.
Sometimes we catch a dead ball, and I'll go tell my partners that I have been warning those two guys and the next stuff that happens is gonna get noticed.
That way my partners aren't surprised by something I call "way off ball".
mick

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by JRutledge


That way my partners aren't surprised by something I call "way off ball".
mick

It really was not way off ball, it was really in the high post. but they were around the circle "dancing with each other." And the two were kind of in the play, the offense was just playing a spread or delay offense at the time, and the ball was higher in the frontcourt. So basically the call was not really "away" from the ball, it appeared that way because of how far spread the offense and defense was. I should have made that clearer.

Peace

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Originally posted by mick

It really was not way off ball, it was really in the high post. but they were around the circle "dancing with each other." And the two were kind of in the play, the offense was just playing a spread or delay offense at the time, and the ball was higher in the frontcourt. So basically the call was not really "away" from the ball, it appeared that way because of how far spread the offense and defense was. I should have made that clearer.

Peace

Rut,
I hear that.
Even more of a reason for your partner to be quiet.
If he was seeing it and passing on it, maybe he was a touch defensive that you made up his mind for him.
He apparently had something to pass on or he wouldn't have seen the "shorts".
I was just implying that when I go "way off ball", my partners are gonna be wondering,"What...?". And when I signal they'll know where and why I went there.
mick

[Jeremy Hohn]

Dont sweat it crew, we all know that guy will never call above rec league and especially if he won't listen to an official that has more experience than he does, he is finished