change call...get it right?
 

3 person crew...girls tournament

White leads blue by 2 points with 1:00 left in regulation. W-14 has the ball in the back court (just off the end line), but she is getting trapped in the corner. As she's turning to avoid the double team, she goes down (I am the trail...just off the court, about two or three feet from the player). I blow the whistle for a travel. W14 looks at me and says "I never lost my dribble!" About the same time, the trail comes running to me and he tells me that he had a very clear look at the play and she never stopped dribbling when she went down. CRAP!

We discussed it for a second and decided we had to go with an inadvertant whistle and white got the ball back. Naturally, the fans went crazy and when I explained the situation to the blue coach, he was not happy, but he understood we were getting the play right (he was frustrated because he had them trapped in the corner regardless of the travel call and now they got the ball out of bounds).

As it turns out, white threw the ball away as soon as they inbounded the ball and blue shot and missed three or four straight shots. White finally got the ball back with less than 10 seconds left and blue fouled with 6.3 left. White made one shot for a three point lead. Blue takes timeout and with 2 seconds left they get a wide open three point shot that bounces off the rim.

I feel like we got it right, but it was not pretty. In hindsight, I was probably too close to make the travel call. She was not pushed or bumped...she just went down as she tried to avoid the trap. I was looking more from the waist up to see if there would be a foul and I just didn't see her continue to dribble.

Other than that, it was a pretty good game.

PLease give me your thoughts...

There's your problem. :rolleyes:

Schizophrenia?

I see an opportunity for us to see who can fill in the blank the best.

Too many Trails spoil the ______________.

:D

Seriously, you have to change the call if the player was dribbling the whole time. Heck, it's one of the fundamentals of the rules that a player can't travel while dribbling, so trying to stick with such a call would be ridiculous.

Your first clue that you might have missed the call was the protest from the player. However, what happened next is bit puzzling to me.

1. Did YOU go seek extra information from your partners or did one of your partners come to YOU and offer it? There actually is a significant difference between you asking and one of them volunteering. I'm far more likely to volunteer information when the play is strictly a rules situation and to stay out of it when it's a judgment call, including an OOB call. Most of the time, if the calling official doesn't come to me and ask, he is on his own.

2. Was it the Center who provided the help or was it the new Lead?

I'm not sure how I feel about the Center helping under these circumstances. Obviously, if he hadn't you would have completely blown the call, but on the other hand I'm not thrilled that one of your partners was looking at a trap three feet from you instead of doing his job and observing the other players in the backcourt trying to get open to receive a pass. A defender could have been holding one of them and that is why the trapped player was having trouble. I'd be disappointed to learn that one of my partners didn't believe that I could officiate a 2 v 1 trap right in front of me, whether that's true or not. ;)

I know how I feel about the new Lead attempting to help with this play. What the heck is he doing looking back there? Doesn't he have players in the frontcourt or near the division line who need observation? I would call that ball-watching and not be happy about it at all.

I think the new Lead was probably responsible for 7 players at this point. Please come back and paint us a better picture. How many players were involved in the trap? Where were the other players (frontcourt backcourt)? Who was it that came to give you information because it couldn't have been the trail since you said you were. Was the trap happening in the corner on the Trail/Lead side of the court or the Center's side of the court?

Assuming you did in fact get it right, let's look at what was wrong with the play and what could be done to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. At this stage in the game, all game really, it should have been a high certainty call.

Too many Trails spoil the Happy.

Concerning this play -
At this point, you have lost all chances to "get it right". What you are doing is tring to lessen the damage created.

Rarely is anyone really trying to get it right, when they say "get it right". They are actually trying to fix a screw up. (I know, I have been there.)

Really? Nobody liked that enough to comment? Hrrmph. :mad:

Well, I'm late to the party, but my answer is, "Not really."

It was the trail who ran in and volunteered the information. I was prepared to go with my call (even though the player protested). The trail came in immediately with what he saw. As we talked, the center came in, but he said he did not see anything.

There was pressure and there's a good chance all 10 players were in the backcourt.

My problem was that I was too close to the play. I'm concentrating on body or hands contact (holds, grabs, push, etc.) and I did not have a good look from the waist down. When she went down, it was obviously without a foul and in my haste, I called the travel. Interestingly enough, in a game today, I had a very similar play and I was able to be patient and not call a travel.

It's all part of becoming a better official.

:confused:

We still have too many Trails. :D

While sometimes we may have two trails bc one is on didn't notice a flex, what were you? Are you talking about the old L who became the new T or did the C come in and gave you the information? Is this what you mean?

He was the old trail, who was in the process of becoming the new lead, but with the pressure in the backcourt at the end of the game, he had yet to cross the division line into the "new" frontcourt. I was on the endline, the C was about even with the free throw line on the opposite side and the "new" lead (although still in a trail position) was about two feet from the division line (all 10 players were in the backcourt with us). Does that help?

So the Lead came all the way to where you were to talk about a play? Honestly, how many players did he have to look through/around to do this? Keep things simple: he was the Lead.

Okay, Dave, that helps a lot.
What you need to tell me now is if this play happened following a throw-in in the backcourt or come from a missed shot by the opponents and a defensive rebound.

That is important because it has bearing upon what YOUR positioning would have been, and when the new Lead should be leaving. He does have responsibilities on a missed shot and defensive rebound which differ greatly from an end line throw-in and subsequent trap.

So do you remember what led up to the trap in the corner?

Nevada,
I am almost positive it was right after a made basket (perhaps with a time-out), because the defense had time to get set up in the press (which explains why all three of us were in the backcourt).

I was still out of bounds and the play was just in front of me (it happened in the corner, tableside).

I'd never worked with either official before and it's very possible the trail was doing some ball watching (rather than just helping me out). However, if he did clearly see that she never lost her dribble, he was correct in coming to me with the information. It was a close game and that call needed to be correct.

As I think I mentioned earlier, I was too close to the play. I was just off to the right (2 feet?) and perhaps 2 feet behind the play. I try to stay out of bounds (when becoming the new trail) until the ball clears the free throw line, but at this point, I had moved towards the play (seeing the trap coming). One move I could have made was to stal a little wide, but I was more concerned about a foul as the players reached for the ball. With that position, I did not have a great look below the waist, and as she fell, she apparently kept dribbling all the time.

A patient whistle would have been the right option. She falls...look to see what she's doing with the ball...still dribbling...hold the whistle until she's fouled or calls timeout. More times than not, a patient whistle is the way to go.

Okay, I agree with all of that, and you have learned from this experience and will be a better official for it.

Given your information about how this play began, I would now add that the new Lead should have been focused on the players furthest down the court and not in the back corner. I would certainly have been no closer to you than the division line as the new Lead.

Had the play been from a missed try for goal, then the Lead needs to stay and officiate the rebounding activity and will have responsibility for OOB along that sideline after a defensive rebound until the old Lead, now the new Trail, can get out wide enough to cover that. In my mind that would be the only reason for the new Lead to be looking at this play. He could have been checking to make sure that none of the players violated by stepping OOB on the sideline, and seen the dribbler fall.

However, since this play occurred under circumstances in which the new Trail could obtain the proper position for covering a sideline OOB during the throw-in, I agree with you that he was likely ball-watching.

Dave, you keep referring to the other official as the Trail. You were the Trail in this play, the other official was the new Lead.

You are correct, I was the NEW trail and the "trail" I keep referring to is actually the NEW lead.

Call what you see, pass on what you don't see. And try to always get in position.

It's Deja Vu all over again

Smarter Than The Average Yankee ...