Another Wreck Mess......

[grunewar]

I’m a long-time coach and a senior ref in this Rec League. Most people know me. Last night is my son’s last B13/15 game of season. I am on the bench as Asst Coach.

Game-time and opponent only has four players. Two of their better players are not there. We are missing one of our better players, but still have seven. The game doesn't start on time. Five minutes later, another player for them shows up. Game on.

Game begins and is competitive the first five minutes. It is obvious (to me) the Reffs are not calling fouls. We begin to pull away by 10 or twelve as they are outmanned. One of the better players for them arrives late and immediately goes in and provides his team a spark. We maintain our double-digit lead.

Here's where it gets a bit testy. An older teenager from the B16/18 league is there with a few of his friends. At one point, he convinces the other coaches to play him. You're kidding right? A non-rostered, All-Star player, from the 16/18 yr old league is now on the floor?! Against 13/15 yr olds?! As Asst coach I come out of my chair, onto the court during the dead ball and tell the ref there is NO WAY he is playing!

The refs would have let it go – and the one adult knew better but is too buddy, buddy always wanting to get along.

The teen, now comes off the court and is very demonstrative. Calling me names, talking under his breath, arguing, (Why can't I play? Game is out of control. Coach doesn't care. You're not the Head Coach. You're son plays HS ball. I never played HS ball. etc) taking off his shirt, yap, yap, yapping. I ignore him. Now he starts muttering things about my son under his breath, yap, yap, yap. I ignore him.

At one point he even tried to convince the other coaches (who are teenagers by the way) to have their players throw him the ball while he's out of bounds, a non-player, on the bench so he can take a shot. A mockery.

At another point, one of his buds wants to play (C'mon man it's a fun league. No championships. Who cares who wins?) I tell HIM he can't either. Etc. etc. It's not about you, it's about the league. It's about parents paying money for their kids to play on a team.

I admit, I have a history with this one teen. I have T'd him before. He argues with me all the time. He doesn't like me and I don't care. He doesn't know the rules and doesn't listen when I talk to him. That's all ok too. But, he can't just walk on the court and play. What if he hurt somebody? What if he got hurt? Then what?

The Officials lacked the seasoning and game management skills needed to manage this game. The coaches were nice kids, but not mature enough to tell the teens to go away.

The Officials needed to take charge and didn't. Neither team reached the bonus in either half! Meaning, neither team was whistled for more than six fouls! In a 13-15 yr old game? You must be kidding right? It was a hack fest.

Personally, if I were the Ref, I would have asked the teen to leave the bench where he and his buds were the entire game. If he didn't leave I would have sought the coaches help. If they didn't assist, I would have either declared a forfeit or maybe called the police to clear him out. Silly to let it go on.

Maybe I saw it through jaundiced eyes. Maybe those kids consider me an a$$. I don't care. This is my recollection as an adult, an experienced ref, and seasoned coach.

PS - I sent a note to the league.
PSS – I almost feel like Padgett telling a story like this…….sheesh!

--- wow --- Tell us how you really feel

Oh how perception changes when we have a dog in the race, if you will.

Originally Posted by grunewar

It is obvious (to me) the Reffs are not calling fouls.

Marginal vs. Foul - all depends on how you look at it through unbiased eyes.

Originally Posted by grunewar

As Asst coach I come out of my chair, onto the court during the dead ball and tell the ref there is NO WAY he is playing!

Really?? I'm sure you wouldn't allow this from a HC or AC on the games you work.
I would've dealt with your concern, right AFTER I whacked you for "telling" me what's what while walking on my court. Please tell me you didn't drop the old "I'm a ref too" line on them...

Originally Posted by grunewar

The teen, now comes off the court and is very demonstrative. Calling me names, talking under his breath, arguing, (Why can't I play? Game is out of control. Coach doesn't care. You're not the Head Coach. You're son plays HS ball. I never played HS ball. etc) taking off his shirt, yap, yap, yapping. I ignore him. Now he starts muttering things about my son under his breath, yap, yap, yap. I ignore him.

I wonder why Could there have been a better way to handle that sitch? Surely going onto the court & telling the ref what's what was the easy thing to do. How about calling a TO getting the refs to the table with the other coach & working this thing out??
Oh & yes getting that TO back before play resumes

Originally Posted by grunewar

I admit, I have a history with this one teen.

Bingo!

Originally Posted by grunewar

The Officials lacked the seasoning and game management skills needed to manage this game.

The Officials needed to take charge and didn't. Neither team reached the bonus in either half! Meaning, neither team was whistled for more than six fouls! In a 13-15 yr old game? You must be kidding right? It was a hack fest.

In most cases the lower the age & skill level, the less experienced all parties involved will be.

And what's wrong with NOT reaching the bonus in either half?? When I get decent partners, most of my games go that way! That sir is not a bad thing, IMHO.

Originally Posted by grunewar

Maybe I saw it through jaundiced eyes.

No disrespect, but ya think?
It never ceases to amaze me how attitudes change during a sporting event depending upon who's playing --- even from our own

Well at least you slept on it before expressing your thoughts.

[grunewar]

Ch1town - I'm not going to disagree with anything you wrote or apologize for my actions. Calling a timeout would have been a great idea - truly, didn't think about it. That's a great point.

This is Rec ball and regardless of how it looks I was the senior, most experienced league official and coach present - regardless of my alleged biases or predispositions I am always looked at to help run games, teach officials, observe, etc. Even if I don’t have a dog in the fight. You are right though, this time I did.

Did I overstep my bounds as an Asst Coach – by the book, absolutely. I was trying to do what is right and correct for the league. I'm not going to let someone get injured because others are inexperienced and don't know what to do.

I sent a note similar to this thread to the league Commissioner, the Head Coach (new this yr) and my Referee Assignor - if they want to discipline me, bar me, whatever - that is their prerogative. I caveated much of what I said in my email with “IMO”. They can ask others of course and I hope they do.

After every Rec Game I officiate I send a recap to the league letting them know nothing happened, something happened, etc. I have some credibility here.

Originally Posted by grunewar

Ch1town - I'm not going to disagree with anything you wrote or apologize for my actions. Calling a timeout would have been a great idea - truly, didn't think about it. That's a great point..

No sir, I'm not looking for an internet argument nor an apology You do you! I just thought it could've been a better way & wanted to see what you thought.

Originally Posted by grunewar

This is Rec ball and regardless of how it looks I was the senior, most experienced league official AND coach present...

I hear you, but it's either or on my games. My response is generally "you can not & will not wear both hats today sir/ma'am. If you want to work, I have an extra shirt & whistle in my bag."

Originally Posted by grunewar

Did I overstep my bounds as an Asst Coach – by the book, absolutely. I was trying to do what is right and correct for the league. I'm not going to let someone get injured because others are inexperienced and don't know what to do.

That is for you & your superiors to decide...
I understand the safety issue as well.

Around here kids are allowed to "play up" an age group or two & due to that experience, I've noticed how much more skilled they are when they go back to playing their own age group. Not always a bad thing.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

No sir, I'm not looking for an internet argument nor an apology You do you! I just thought it could've been a better way & wanted to see what you thought.




I hear you, but it's either or on my games. My response is generally "you can not & will not wear both hats today sir/ma'am. If you want to work, I have an extra shirt & whistle in my bag."



That is for you & your superiors to decide...
I understand the safety issue as well.

Around here kids are allowed to "play up" an age group or two & due to that experience, I've noticed how much more skilled they are when they go back to playing their own age group. Not always a bad thing.

And I'm not going to argue as you bring up some great points. I would have loved to work this game, but my kid was playing and I try to avoid it. I would have gladly taken the whistle if you offered.

Your "no sir" comment is accurate, but these were two, little-experienced officials who had no idea how to handle it and had the "dear in the headlights look."

Safety is always job one.

We have a "play up" rule too in our one age group and there is merit there. But this teen would have been "playing down" an age group going from the B16/18 to the B13/15 not playing up.

I hope the folks didn't think I was an a$$, but I obviously could have handled it better as you correctly point out. I appreciate your opinion.

[IUgrad92]

I didn't see any mention of a league administrator being present. If that were true, along with teenagers coaching teenagers, I'm not sure there's enough structure in this particular league. I don't think I'd pay money to have my kid to play in this kind of league.

Am I getting the wrong picture or am what I'm picturing accurate?

[BayStateRef]

I am particularly sensitive to your comment about the less experienced refs. Last year, watching a Rec game (3rd grade boys), a dad came onto the court during a live ball to challenge a ref for not stopping the game because a kid was hurt. (Turned out it was his kid who was crying.) The high school kid was working alone. He did not have the maturity or management skills to deal with the adult...who also turned out to be the league coordinator. No adult coach or other parent did anything. I did. And then I had to actually ask that this guy be suspended (he was).

You handled it fine. It is Rec. It is allowing the kids to play who are part of this program. It is not pick-up ball where anyone can play. You are allowed to wear many hats. I suspect that if your coach had tried to add an older kid to your roster, you would have not allowed it. So I have no problem with your comments or your actions.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

I didn't see any mention of a league administrator being present. If that were true, along with teenagers coaching teenagers, I'm not sure there's enough structure in this particular league. I don't think I'd pay money to have my kid to play in this kind of league.

Am I getting the wrong picture or am what I'm picturing accurate?

Your picture is accurate.

We've had several HS and College kids Coach as part of community service projects and done quite well. But, the league does need to be more involved and visible. It's another good point.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

and had the "dear in the headlights look."

You mean that sometimes your wife is out walking along a rural road and stares into headlights?

Or is this part of some game you two like to play? TMI.

[BillyMac]

Over twenty-five years ago, I was asked to officiate in high school boys recreation league. This league was for high school boys who either did not make the high school team, or chose not to try out for the high school team (poor grades, lack of commitment, etc.) Each team had a "captain" who also acted as the "coach". There was no adult involvement with this league at all, not even parents in the stands as fans.

The league had five teams, and all five teams would play one night a week, in three back to back to back games. Figure out the math. One of the teams in the first game was always scheduled to play in the third game as well, with the game in between as a "rest period". Well teenage boys being teenage boys, many of these players often decided to spend their "rest time" between games drinking in the parking lot.

I never gave so many technical fouls in my life. I finished my commitment to officiate in that league for that season, and then told my assigner never again. The money was very good, but it wasn't worth it.

Moral to the story: For real basketball games, with games that count, with real officials, there has to be some type of adult administrators, or coaches. Playground ball, with only players involved, no adults, is best done as just that, playground ball. Throw some real officials into a "playground" game, and this "hybrid" of "real basketball" and "playground basketball" is doomed to failure.