Ok guys..just got an email from the camp director( i leave for York university on sat) and they are adding in a 30 sec. shot clock. These kids are midget aged(15-16, JV, whatever). So not only are these kids going to be inexperienced with the shot clock, but so are most of the officials. I, like most of the officials have never worked with a shot clock(highest i've done is competitive mens league,and varsity boys) but as you all know, fed rules don't have a shot clock.

Do you guys have any tips on how to work with these? any pointers that might make things easier?

any Canadian guys know anything about any CIS rule differences??

thanks so much

Tyler

Geez - a Canadian shot clock! Should I? Nah - it's too easy. ;)

CIS rules
 

Well that depends on the game...

CIS men use NCAA Men's rules with the following...
- Subs at any time (including before the 1st of multiple FT)
- 2 minute blood rule
- 30 second shot clock

CIS woman play under FIBA rules

as for working with the shot clock, just be sure to take note of what the clock is showing when you've got a violation that will have the offence keep the ball. The clock should not reset. The 30 second operator (at least at the high schools that I work) are quick to reset the clock on the whistle.

Enjoy the camp!

Just remember Mark.... it's all metric...

Re: CIS rules
 

Yeah, this is very good advice. Get in the habit of looking
at the game clock & the shot clock on dead balls. Also,
don't be shy about correcting shot clock operators that
reset it too early, late, or what have you. Go over the
shot clock rules & situations at the table prior to the
game, they will appreciate it! Be aware as it winds down, a
common thing is shot-buzzer-rim. This is not a violation
but it will confuse the kids (and the refs too! ;) ).
As I think about it a big operator error is to start the
shot clock before the throw-in after a made basket. Make
sure they dont start it until there's possesion after the
throw in.

The shot clock will actually make you a better official. You'll be more aware of the shot clock than you ever have before.

i should have clarified. everything is fed except for the cis shot clock.

TR

Re: CIS rules
 

So you're saying that if the defense kicks the ball, the shot clock isn't reset? :confused:

Re: CIS rules
 

Okay, I'll bite...

What is the 2 minute blood rule!?!?!?

Re: Re: CIS rules
 

Good point, Tony. I think that's the only one, tho. He was referring, of course, to a ball being tapped OOB by the defense, or a held ball which the offense will retain. But your point is well-taken.

Chuck

Re: Re: CIS rules
 

a kicked ball, ball struck with a fist, injured player on the defence (including lost contact lens) are all shot clock resets. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible for moose seeing as he's never worked with a shot clock.

Basically they only times that the shot clock will not reset and the offence keeps the ball is if...
- the defence knocks the ball out of bounds
- there is an AP situation and the offence keeps the ball
- there is a timeout called
- the offence is assessed a Technical Foul.

There are a couple of more cases where the team is control keeps the ball but does not get a reset on the clock (i.e. double foul) but I think that these are the 4 ones to remember.

Re: Re: CIS rules
 

The long and the short of it is in the university men's game, if a player is bleeding a coach will be given 2 minutes to see if the bleeding can be stopped with no penalty. I belive that the player will need to be replaced after the 2 minutes and the team is assessed a time out but I'm not sure. I know this is a modification from the NCAA men's rules and I don't agree with it but that is what the Canadian universities have come up with.

well, we're playing fed rules, except the shot clock so hopefully we won't have to worry about that real funny stuff..

Tyler

Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

Is an injured player (or lost contact lens) a reset now? I was not aware of this. I officiated HS ball in CA up until about 3 years ago and we used a shot clock (30 secs. for boys/35 secs. for girls). The above were not resets in CA at the HS level at that time. I also did some college ball at Div II & III and Juco levels. The above were not resets at these levels either. Is this a regional thing? Has there been a rule change with respect to shot clocks? I now officiate in TX and we do not use shot clocks in HS. I only know of the following 4 reset reasons...

1. Intentional kick
2. Hit with fist
3. Foul
4. Shot hits rim

Sure could use some updated info. Thanks.

Re: Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

5. Change of possession (including a made basket).

I know, there's that smart-@$$ side of me again. Or is that the nit-picking side? I can't tell. :)

Chuck

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

What about injured player (or lost contact)?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

If the injured player is on the defence, then yes this is a reset. If the injured player is on the offence there is no reset. At least that is my understanding of the NCAA men's rule and the FIBA rule. It maybe different in FED.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

First, there is no shot clock rule in Fed. If a state association wishes to use a shot clock for HS contests, I believe that each association can choose what the rules governing the shot clock will be. In MA, we use the NCAA's shot clock rules (except that it's 30 seconds, not 35).

Second, Ian's reply above is not correct -- at least as far as NCAA rules go. I honestly have no idea about the FIBA rules.

Here are the NCAA rules regarding the shot clock. I've omitted all the notes and A.R.'s. The point under discussion falls under Art 7, section b.

2-13 "Duties of the Shot-Clock Operator
The shot-clock operator shall:
Art. 6. Stop the timing device and reset it:
a. When team control is re-established after the team loses possession of the ball;
b. When a foul occurs (Exceptions: Rules 2-13.7.e, .f and .g);
c. When a held ball occurs (Exceptions: Rule 2-13.7.g);
d. When a try for goal strikes the ring or flange; or
e. When a violation occurs.

Art 7. Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances:
a. The ball is deflected out of bounds by a defensive player;
b. A player is injured or loses a contact lens;
c. A charged timeout has concluded;
d. During team control as defined in Rule 4-13, a defensive player causes a held ball and the alternating-possession arrow favors the offensive team.
e. After a double personal foul when there is team control as defined in Rule 4-13 and as described in Rule 7-4.1.h.
f. After a double personal foul when a team is in possession of the ball for a throw-in as described in Rule 7-4.1.h
g. After any technical foul is assessed to the team in control of the ball or to the team in possession of the ball during a throw-in or to bench personnel or followers of that team, when these conditions exist. Exceptions: A single intentional technical foul or a single flagrant technical foul.
h. After a simultaneous held ball as described in Rule 7-4.1.g occurs during a throw-in and the alternating-possession arrow favors the throw-in team."

Re: Re: Re: Re: CIS rules
 

Just to be the bigger smart *** (or would that be the smarter big ***?), the phrase "intentional kick" is redundant.

That's not true. The ball could be accidentally kicked. Player A1 is chasing the ball while it is rolling on the ground. He (or she) could "accidentally" kick the ball as they are reaching for it...no violation. (See below)

[NF Rule 9-3-4 A player shall not travel with the ball, intentionally kick it, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from below.
NOTE: Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.]

I guess you could rationalize that when the ball deflects off the foot accidentally it can't be a kick. But then you would be a HUGE "picker of nits" (not to mention that you'd be wrong). I'll leave the determination of whether that also makes you a "smart ***" up to you.

[Edited by rpirtle on Jul 6th, 2002 at 09:43 AM]

In order to have a kick violation, intent must be present.

Q.E.D.

I guess the bottom line is that the phrase "intentional kick" is not redundant, but the phrase "intentional kick violation" is.

Why can't we just all get along? ;)

That would be correct. According to 4-28, the ball can't be "accidently kicked." Kicking is an intentional act. So, I don't know what you call it when the foot accidentally hits the foot, but it ain't kicking! ;)