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-   -   After the 1st half buzzer. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/53065-after-1st-half-buzzer.html)

RogersUmp Mon May 04, 2009 09:31am
After the 1st half buzzer.
 
I saw this at a 5th grade/11U girls game this last weekend. Player A1 brings the ball aross halfcourt and desperately tries to launch a shot before the clock runs out but her shot is clearly a second or two after the buzzer. In the act of shooting Player B1 hip-checks Player A1 into a heap on the floor. One official said he saw nothing and the other said it was after the buzzer, I have nothing.

What is the correct call? Do you consider ejecting B1 for unsportsman-like conduct? Is there a foul if it's a) after the 1st half buzzer b)end of game?

Ch1town Mon May 04, 2009 09:44am
Contact during a dead ball should be ignored unless it's considered to be intentional or flagrant. It would have to be a technical foul NOT personal. That being said, unsporting alone does not mean ejection.
The situation you describe is completely up to the judgement of the officials.

RogersUmp Mon May 04, 2009 09:47am
So, Ch1town, you're saying it's ok to rough a player up a little as long as it's after the buzzer? No one is at a disadvantage here since it is a dead ball?

Ch1town Mon May 04, 2009 09:50am
I said no such thing...

Reading is Fundamental!

bob jenkins Mon May 04, 2009 09:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599560)
So, Ch1town, you're saying it's ok to rough a player up a little as long as it's after the buzzer? No one is at a disadvantage here since it is a dead ball?
The first question is not at all what he said. The second is true -- aadvantage / disadvantage won't apply here.

If the contact meets the definition of an intentional or a flagrant foul, then it should be called an intentional or a flagrant techincal foul. If it doesn't meet that definition, then it's not a foul.

Raymond Mon May 04, 2009 09:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599560)
So, Ch1town, you're saying it's ok to rough a player up a little as long as it's after the buzzer? No one is at a disadvantage here since it is a dead ball?
Are you looking for an answer to your original question or are you looking for validation of your opinion?

RogersUmp Mon May 04, 2009 09:56am
Quote:
Contact during a dead ball should be ignored unless it's considered to be intentional or flagrant.
Your comment leads me to believe you allow hip-checking that knocks someone to the floor in basketball. Silly me, I thought that was only in boys hockey!

RogersUmp Mon May 04, 2009 09:57am
I was looking for an officials read on the sitch.

Ref Ump Welsch Mon May 04, 2009 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 599562)
I said no such thing...

Reading is Fundamental!
There must be an echo in my building. My Vice President for Academic Affairs just said that this morning! :D

Ch1town Mon May 04, 2009 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599568)
I was looking for an officials read on the sitch.
Your sitch is a judgment call & not being on that particular game, I can't really say as I did not see the play. HTBT

I did provide you with the rule though...

I didn't know we were talking about ME, but in my games as the T, I'm staying with the shooter even after I wave the shot off. If I judge that the defender hip checked purposely as opposed to incidental contact, then we've got an intentional foul.

If after the hip check the defender walks by or stands over the shooter & has something to say, perhaps it's a flagrant.

SamIAm Mon May 04, 2009 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599556)
I saw this at a 5th grade/11U girls game this last weekend. Player A1 brings the ball aross halfcourt and desperately tries to launch a shot before the clock runs out but her shot is clearly a second or two after the buzzer. In the act of shooting Player B1 hip-checks Player A1 into a heap on the floor. One official said he saw nothing and the other said it was after the buzzer, I have nothing.

What is the correct call? Do you consider ejecting B1 for unsportsman-like conduct? Is there a foul if it's a) after the 1st half buzzer b)end of game?

So, Ch1town, you're saying it's ok to rough a player up a little as long as it's after the buzzer? No one is at a disadvantage here since it is a dead ball?
There is a phrase that goes something like this :
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

RogersUmp, I will save you the trouble of your next post by writing it for you:

So, SamIAm, you're saying "You can show words to a jacka$$, but you can't make him understand."

Then my next post will be:

YES!

JRutledge Mon May 04, 2009 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 599565)
Are you looking for an answer to your original question or are you looking for validation of your opinion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599566)
Your comment leads me to believe you allow hip-checking that knocks someone to the floor in basketball. Silly me, I thought that was only in boys hockey!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599568)
I was looking for an officials read on the sitch.
It appears he is looking to debate what he/she thinks rather than actually reading the answers.

Peace

WreckRef Mon May 04, 2009 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersUmp (Post 599566)
Your comment leads me to believe you allow hip-checking that knocks someone to the floor in basketball. Silly me, I thought that was only in boys hockey!
Yes, silly you, he is quoting what the rule book says, which is the contact should be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant.

Texas Aggie Mon May 04, 2009 11:27am
Contact, even violent contact, does not always constitute a foul. 'Town's first sentence quoted the rule and all that needs to be said on the situation.

I'm thinking the girl in question was the OP's daughter. If not, I'm wondering why he seems to have such an emotional stake in this.

RogersUmp Mon May 04, 2009 11:32am
Flagrant.
 
Does anyone know the definition for flagrant?


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